"Master Caution Anti-Ice"

[byork 2,260]

Thanks for report, please try again,but this time run the full pre-flight events. Don't skip anything.

[SKeller 5]

When starting from Cold & Dark and doing the Preflight, everything is fine.

 

When starting from the "NGX Long" panel state and doing as described above, I get the quadruple Master Caution alert. Yet, I don't see I'm doing anything wrong...

[byork 2,260]

Hmmmm, thanks for the report.

 

That narrows it down a bit!

 

Cheers,

[GAJ52 54]

Hi Stefan

 

I have just tried the procedure you describe to try and reproduce your problem.

 

You don't mention it, but I assume you are using Ground Electrical Power.

 

At what stage do you activate FS2Crew and what is set in the 'Checklist window'

 

You don't mention saying "Are you ready for the departure brief" before "Any Questions"

 

Prior to Pushback you don't say to the Ground Engineer "We are ready to pushback and engine start"

 

The reason I asked the above is.... I carried out all the items you stated, in the order you stated and for the first time ever my Pushback didn't stop, this has never happened before. I suspect something in the procedure is being left out which is causing the problems you are having, its just a case of tracking it down.

 

To try and help with your problem, can you confirm the questions I have asked above please.

 

Glen

[SKeller 5]

Hi Glen,

 

Thanks a lot for your time and your input. Much appreciated.

 

Yes, I'm using ground electrical power. My startup panel state is "NGX Long", and I open FS2Crew as soon as the NGX has fully initialized. Then I check the CFG and BRF pages. Here's what the panels look like:

 

 

 

 

 

You are right, I normally do not say "Are you ready for the departure brief". My understanding of the software was that it doesn't matter, as long as the BR page is set, and saying "Any questions" at some point during Preflight would do. I just tried the procedure above again, this time saying "Are you ready for the departure brief" prior to "Any questions", but the result was the same.

 

Regarding pushback, I don't use FS2Crew's pushback. I use AES pushback at my add-on airports or the NGX pushback when at default airports without AES support. In both cases, after the APU is on the bus, I call the ground crew saying "Please disconnect external power". After that I use the "Prepare position for departure now" command by AES.

I actually had the suspicion myself that pushback might be the culprit, but when I just tested again, I started my FSX session at the holding point of the runway, so no pushback involved at all, yet I get the same error.

And when I use the pushback procedure described above from a "Cold & Dark" panel state, everything works fine...

 

Anyway, I can live with this. It's a matter of 5 seconds that my F/O is speaking rubbish. Not a problem at all. Of course, it would be excellent to find out what exactly the problem is, but I guess you guys all have more important things to do ;-)

 

Thanks a lot and best regards,

Stefan

[byork 2,260]

Given that the problem seems to be associated with the "Long Panel" saved panel state (and not the Cold and Dark panel state), I'm wondering if there is an issue with the panel state file itself???

 

Codewise, when the FO announces "Master Caution XXX", the trigger is based on the associated light illuminating on the master caution panel, as read through the PMDG NGX.

 

But your in your scenario, the sound is playing even though the light is not illuminating.

 

That's what's odd, and what I'm trying to figure out.

 

Cheers,

[SKeller 5]

The sound actually plays the very moment the lights go out. And it shouldn't play four times either, should it? A mystery, that is ;-)

[byork 2,260]

It plays 4 times because there are 4 lights associated, but in your case, the lights are not "on".

 

I'm looking at the code as we speak... the "trigger" is when the light is on, not when it's off.

 

And again, why this only happens with the "long panel" state, and not the "short panel" state is the million dollar question.

[SKeller 5]

Have never tried the Short panel. Will do tonight.

[GAJ52 54]

Hi Stefan

 

Thanks for another very detailed post.

 

Unfortunately I don't currently have the PMDG737-600 installed, and don't own AES, so can't include these when trying to duplicate your departure procedure.

 

I did try everything else you have said including starting the NGX with "NGX Long". This start option doesn't turn on the Window Heat, can you confirm you switch it on as its not included in your list.

 

I went through the departure procedure exactly how you describe in your very detailed posts - thanks for that. Also because you didn't mention the Window Heat I purposely left this switched OFF to see if this would contribute to the incorrect warnings.

 

The bad news....or good depending how you look at it is, again I couldn't reproduce your 'Master Caution' warning even with the Window Heat left off.

 

It will be interesting to see if the NGX Short procedure makes any difference.

 

I'll re-install my NGX 737-600 shortly and try again, if you haven't already found the cause of the problem yourself.

 

Regards

 

Glen

[SKeller 5]

Hi Glen,

 

Thanks a lot for your continuing support. I do turn on the Window Heat switches myself, but for some reason I didn't include this step in my list above, sorry. The sequence should read:

 

- Yaw Damper ON

- Emergency Exit Lights Guard closed

- Passenger Signs ON

- Window Heat switches ON

- Recirc Fans Auto

- Pressurization Panel set

 

I'm about to start FSX and try with the NGX Short panel state. I'll report back the results.

 

Thanks again and best regards,

Stefan

[SKeller 5]

Hi guys,

 

I just ran a couple of tests again. Just to be sure that my custom Lufthansa livery downloaded from the AVSIM file library is not the problem, I used the PMDG House liveries for all these tests. And I disabled OpusFSX too. So, the only add-ons involved besides the NGX and FS2Crew Emergency were AES, Aerosoft's Mega Airport Frankfurt and Ground Environment X Europe. Here are the results:

 

737-600 Panel State 'NGX Short' -> same error

737-700 Panel State 'NGX Short' -> same error

737-800 Panel State 'NGX Short' -> same error

(I didn't bother trying with the 900, I hope you don't mind)

 

After that, I tried again with the 736, Panel State 'NGX Short', but this time I did the engine start flow myself (#2 then #1). After cutout of engine starter #1, I turned on both engine generators. Then I turned the Probe Heat switches ON (first left then right), and this time the "Master Caution Anti-Ice" was triggered when I turned on the left probe heat.

 

Tried a fresh start again, did the engine start flow myself again, but this time turned on the right probe heat first. "Master Caution Anti-Ice" was triggered when I turned on the right probe heat. After saying "Checked" and "Identify", the F/O repoprted the following:

 

"It looks like the Captain's Pitot Heat has failed."

"It looks like the left Elevator Pitot Heat has failed."

"It looks like the left Alpha Vane Heat has failed."

"We got an auxiliary Probe Heat failure."

 

So, this time the other side failed. (And besides: The warning light for the AUX Probe Heat is actually on the right but is announced when the left side fails, the TEMP Probe Heat is on the left but is announced when the right side fails.)

 

I am wondering if FS2Crew might just query for the Probe Heat failures a bit too early... The thing is that if you flip one Probe Heat switch, the four amber lights for the other Probe Heat switch are still on, and so is the Master Caution light and the F/O's Anti-Ice annunciator on the main panel. This somehow looks to me as if FS2Crew was expecting a "No Lights" state after the first Probe Heat switch is turned ON and was not allowing enough time for the second switch to come ON as well.

 

Then again, why am I the only one experiencing this and why does it work when running the full Preflight from Cold & Dark??? I said I'm lost, didn't I? ;-)

 

Best regards,

Stefan

[byork 2,260]

I am wondering if FS2Crew might just query for the Probe Heat failures a bit too early..

 

Could be... as a fix, I might just add a new condition so that the probe heat fail call is not available until the Before Takeoff checklist has been completed.

[SKeller 5]

Hi Bryan,

 

In the meantime I did a reinstall of FS2Crew (just in case), but I still get the same results.

 

I was thinking again about the order in which the F/O reads these failures, and something seems to be a bit odd.

 

This is the order in which the failures are reported when the right side fails:

 

 

And here's the order for the left side:

 

 

Does this maybe shed some light on the problem?

 

Best,

Stefan

[byork 2,260]

Not really... it just makes it weirder to explain why this is happening :huh:

 

The code for this is actually is very simple.

 

Send me a PM with your email address.

 

I'll send you a test fix.

 

Cheers,