Problems Engaging NAV

[Kerlix 99]

Hello,

 

I was following through the advanced tutorial, although I was flying my own route. I had followed everything to the letter and had gotten into the air. When the time came to enable NAV mode, I made sure the source was selected to FMC1. Upon hitting the NAV button, the plane would constantly begin a hard banking left turn. I would disconnect and go back to HDG mode to stay on course.

 

At this point I referred to the advanced tutorial where it talks about doing (for lack of a better term) DTO the next waypoint. This wasn't (what I think) exactly a choosing DTO and the the WPT in questions, but more along the lines of what the tutorial described as below:

 

 

 

INTERCEPTING AN AIRWAY
If ATC had given us “fly heading 160º Intercept V252 east of YYZ” we could easily accomplish that with our FMS. Let’s perform a “manual leg change” first. Click on LS 1L to highlight FR, and select YYZ. At LSK 2L, select PUTOL. This will activate that specific leg. Then, back on the NAV page, LSK 1R, click HDG. This will open up a field that lets us input an assigned heading- 160. You’ll see “INTERCEPT” appear below the HDG. Click on this and then select NAV on the AFCS. You’re PFD will go into “LNAV HDG SELECT” mode, and will fly the assigned heading until intercepting V252.

 

I tried this. Also tried a more straightforwward DTO selection followed by the next waypoint.

 

With the first option (in quotes) the plane more or less kept flying in the striaght line.

 

When going with a pure DTO then selecting the WPT, the plane begin a rapid and steep roll to the left.

 

The first few times I disconnected the AP and hand flew the plane back into a normal flight regime and turned back to the flight path. At that point I thought maybe it was trying to turn around to go back to the first WPT in the flight plan. So I deleted all previous WPTs leaving only the future WPT followed by the rest of the FP.

 

This did not help either. Finally, I decided to let the plane do what it wanted just to see what happend. When I did this, the plane started into the all-too-familiar left bank and evetually rolled itself inverted and tried to become a law dart.

 

Does anyone know of any videos of how to engage and properly use FMS1/NAV that I could watch? Any video actually that happens to cover this portion of the flight. It does not have to be specific to this particular procedure. Reading and seeing something are two completely different things. And not to bash the tutorial, but I found some of the images in it to be kinda blurry and hard to read, but this may be due to my printer quality settings set too low.

 

I really thought I had the source selector(s) on FMS1.

 

Also, on something slightly off topic, but I tried copying the FP data to the FO's FMC, but when I did, it erased my FPL. I did this from the CPT's FMC. Should I be trying to link the FP using the FO's FMC? I imagine so and while thinking about it, it does make sense. I guess I linked from the CPT's side, which linked (copied) a blank FP from the FO's FMC.

 

If anyone can provide any help, it would be greatly appreciated. Coming from flying mainly Boeing FMC's, this thing is a whole new beast to master and I'm trying to get comfortable enough to take it up on VATSIM sometime soon. I just don't want to hop into VATSIM and be unable to comply with controller's request because of my ineptitude.

 

Thanks to any and all that provide some support. I'm loving this bird and can't wait to feel comfortable in all situations that can get thrown at me.

[Andydigital 93]

 

Also, on something slightly off topic, but I tried copying the FP data to the FO's FMC, but when I did, it erased my FPL.

 

 

That's because you pull the data from the opposite FMS, you do not push it. All you did was pull an empty flight plan from the other FMC.

[Kerlix 99]

That's because you pull the data from the opposite FMS, you do not push it. All you did was pull an empty flight plan from the other FMC.

 

So i should select this option the the Captain's (my side) FMC, correct? I suspected this was the issue.

 

CORRECTION: I choose it on the FO's side. That was my problem. I was thinking it linked "across", not "pulled" from the FMC where the option was selected. Thank you.

 

Anyone have any idea why my beautiful plane tried to dive toward mother earth like a madman/plane?

[Andydigital 93]

You press X-Fill on the FMC you want to import the data to, i.e. you are pulling the data from the opposite FMC.

[Kerlix 99]

Yeah, I realized that mistake. I also (embarrassed to admit it) think I "thought" I selected NAV1/FMC as the source for the AP, when in reality i turned another knob somewhere on the center pedastal instead of on the glareshield. Which probably explains all my problems. Thank to everyone for the help. I especially appreciate the help without** someone "barking" at me like I'm the idiot on the block who can't figure out why the mower won't start without checking to see if there's gas in it. Courtesy, timely replies are always welcome especially given some forums I participate in have frequent members who are just foaming at the mouth waiting for someone to overlook something simple so they can jump all over them. So again, thank you. Since there's people with more experience looking at/particpating in the thread, I was wondering if I could ask a different questions, though not related..... How do others determine how much fuel to load for their flights? I'm not familiar with how to judge the fuel burn for certain distances/weather/ etc. I tried using the .xls spreadsheet from AVSIm Libary, but I noticed that when I loaded when it told me to, I had no where near enough to get to my destination. I was trying to do a flight from KORD to CYTZ. I don't think this is out of range, but I wanted to check. If this portion of my thread has to be moved, I understand. I figured I'd just ask here while the attention is still here.

 

EDIT: had to change "with" with "without" to avoid potential problems/sounding offensive.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Kerlix

[Andydigital 93]

When starting out on a new aircraft I usually just fill'er up to the brim until I have done a few flights, then I can use my educated-guess-o-meter once I get an idea of the burn rate for different situations.

[RudiJG1 172]

When starting out on a new aircraft I usually just fill'er up to the brim until I have done a few flights, then I can use my educated-guess-o-meter once I get an idea of the burn rate for different situations.

 

Not a bad suggestion, given that, on one of my first flights with this wonderful beast, I hadn't loaded enough fuel to make it to my destination. Talk about a trial by fire...I quickly had to learn how to load a divert airfield and the appropriate approach into the FMS and then execute the divert/approach. And it worked!

[adamant365 28]

I'm not familiar with how to judge the fuel burn for certain distances/weather/ etc. I tried using the .xls spreadsheet from AVSIm Libary, but I noticed that when I loaded when it told me to, I had no where near enough to get to my destination. I was trying to do a flight from KORD to CYTZ. I don't think this is out of range, but I wanted to check.

When did you notice it telling you that there was no where near enough fuel loaded? The reason I as is because when I calculate fuel on the spreadsheet I uploaded to AVSIM, when I first start the engines, take-off, and even when I'm in the first segment of my journey, the FMS tells me I have way below reserves left. However, it seems the further I go into any flight, the more the destination fuel increases, even with max cruise power and 900RPM. In my opinion, the fuel prediction logic in the FMS needs a bit of tweaking, or maybe it's spot on and the real aircraft behaves that way. It wouldn't be the first oddity of the FMS that I've read about in the Dash.

Point being, make sure you are using the correct units (the spreadsheet has tabs for KG and LB). By my calculation (using the sheet), you should load 5792 LBS of fuel. That assumes 30 minute cruise (~1:05 total time, 20 minute climb, 15 minute DES), FL240, 40 NM to ALTNR, 10 minute taxi, and 20 "extra" minutes. What did you load? What did the sheet output for your journey? The reason I ask all these questions is because if there is an issue, I want to fix it. The data for the sheet the Bob provided more than likely came from a RW source, so as long as the MJC D8 has accurate FDE, it should be spot on.

[Kerlix 99]

 

 

When did you notice it telling you that there was no where near enough fuel loaded? The reason I as is because when I calculate fuel on the spreadsheet I uploaded to AVSIM, when I first start the engines, take-off, and even when I'm in the first segment of my journey, the FMS tells me I have way below reserves left. However, it seems the further I go into any flight, the more the destination fuel increases, even with max cruise power and 900RPM. In my opinion, the fuel prediction logic in the FMS needs a bit of tweaking, or maybe it's spot on and the real aircraft behaves that way. It wouldn't be the first oddity of the FMS that I've read about in the Dash.
Point being, make sure you are using the correct units (the spreadsheet has tabs for KG and LB). By my calculation (using the sheet), you should load 5792 LBS of fuel. That assumes 30 minute cruise (~1:05 total time, 20 minute climb, 15 minute DES), FL240, 40 NM to ALTNR, 10 minute taxi, and 20 "extra" minutes. What did you load? What did the sheet output for your journey? The reason I ask all these questions is because if there is an issue, I want to fix it. The data for the sheet the Bob provided more than likely came from a RW source, so as long as the MJC D8 has accurate FDE, it should be spot on.

I must have mistyped something along the way. I notoced that until airborne, the Fuel page wont give an arrival estimate. The flight I was referring to was telling me I was like 30000+ short of what I needed.

I just did a complete flight and had no issues. I added a little extra to be safe and landing KORD-KATL with about 6000lbs remaining. Seems the error was my fault.

 

 

 

On a related note, does anyone know why when adding passengers and cargo to the fuel page, it blanks everything out?

Edited May 2, 2013 by Kerlix

[adamant365 28]

 

I must have mistyped something along the way. I notoced that until airborne, the Fuel page wont give an arrival estimate. The flight I was referring to was telling me I was like 30000+ short of what I needed.

 

I just did a complete flight and had no issues. I added a little extra to be safe and landing KORD-KATL with about 6000lbs remaining. Seems the error was my fault.

 

 

 

On a related note, does anyone know why when adding passengers and cargo to the fuel page, it blanks everything out?

 

 

 Okay, good...I'm just glad it's not something I did wrong in the calculations.

 

I've seen the same thing as you with blanking everything out on the FUEL page. I think when it comes to ZFW or PAX/CARGO, it's an either or thing...you can either enter ZFW or you can enter pax and cargo. I don't know though...the documentation isn't all that clear in that regard.