I use FSCommander 9 to plan my routes and I can use them in PMDG 737 and add SID/STAR according to the ATC commands. I don't have any problem while approach or landing. I have created a flight plan from OMDB to EGLL using the same program and it can export in FSX version so CS 777 can read it. It also includes SID/STAR for landing to 09L ILS Approach. I tried many times but the plan doesn't go directly to the airport and I can't make a good approach. I didn't do any mistake cause ILS frequency is automatically selected and I armed APP mode. There seems to be a problem with the route but I even tried to select the approach from the FMC but still the same. I don't know what I am doing wrong?

Hi, dannyterrazza,

 

Does your plan include the final approach with waypoints leading directly to the runway?  FSCommander can add the final approach in (separate from the STAR to EGLL).   So can the CS 777 FMC - the plane is rather unfinished but I don't recall problems with that function.  You might be better off saving the flightplan in FSC without the STAR and then adding the STAR and final approach in the CS FMC.

 

If you can post a listing of the waypoints in the plan as showing in your FMC that would help.

 

Mike

Can you check the plan I created? I also don't know how to add final approach. If you can show me how to do it would be great. Flightplan : http://uploaded.net/file/cod3qrhq

Not sure if related but if updating via NavData monthly, their data fixes the last few ILS fixes for runways at the last altitude for the runway. Odd I know

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

 

 

 

 

Can you check the plan I created? I also don't know how to add final approach. If you can show me how to do it would be great.

 

Please just paste a screen shot of your FMC showing the last few waypoints before EGLL, as the raw format of your plan plus the downloading service you are using is making it difficult for me to get your plan and read it.

 

If you click on DEP/APPR on your FMC you should see a list of runways at EGLL (unless you have already activated the plan on the ground).  The Level-D 767's web site has an excellent, free manual in pdf you can download.  It has a very good description of FMC use including approaches and departures.  There will be some differences but Boeing FMCs are very similar to each other.

 

Mike

Hi, dannyterrazza,

 

OK, thanks for the screen shot.  A couple of things:

 

Your first waypoint is BIG, which has a course of 289 to the next waypoint, CF09L.  CF09L is only one waypoint before the runway, and shows a course of 091 (the final approach course to rwy 9L).  That means your aircraft has to turn right 162 degrees in a very short distance to line up with rwy 9L.  It cannot do that, and certainly turned very wide, and probably headed back to rwy 9L from somewhere far off to the left of the proper approach course.  If it intercepted the ILS at all, it was certainly very close to the runway and too far off the approach course to land.

 

BIG is OK as a transition to final approach, but you need some intervening waypoints to enable you to line up properly without having to make any extreme course changes.   I was able to get your full flightplan from the site you uploaded it to, and loaded it into my CS 777.  The last point showing is BIG, which is Ok.  But you need to add a final approach.

 

Do the following:

1) click on the DEP/APR button.  This will bring up the option window with EGLL>ARR.  (NOTE: EGLL WON'T COME UP AS AN OPTION IF YOU HAVE ALREADY ACTIVATED THE FLIGHTPLAN.  THEN, YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE GETTING  CLOSE TO EGLL FOR THAT OPTION TO BECOME AVAILABLE AGAIN).

 

Click on EGLL>ARR.  This will bring up the option window showing a list of runways on the right:

 

Click on ILS09L.  This will give you several transitions.  Click on BIG, the same transition at which your previous plan ends.

 

Now click on the LEGS button.  Scroll down toward the end of your flight plan.  You will see BIG, most likely EGLL followed by a discontinuity.  Click on the first waypoint after the discontinuity, which is the first waypoint of your final approach and clear the discontinuity by placing it right after BIG.  You should now have a series of waypoints that will set you up on the final approach to rwy 9L.   On mine, I have BIG, BIG/26, BIG29, GWC35, IAA10, CI09L, FI09L, RW09L (plus some waypoints for the missed approach).   You might have something a little different if you have different navigation data, but it should be similar.   You will see that these waypoints are taking you around to the right and lining you up with the runway course by IAA10.

 

Finally, make sure the ILS frequency and course are set on the NAV/RAD page of the FMC, and that the same frequency is showing in the FSX map for that runway.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Mike

 

 

Thanks for your help. I will try this now but when I clicked ILS09L there was nothing showing up on LEGS so I had to choose BIG1E from STARS which is the final part of the LEGS I sent to you. I checked NAV/RAD section and ILS frequency of the runway assigned to me is written in the bottom of the page but I can't manually change VOR frequency and the course. Can you show that also?

I was able to land thanks to you. Only problem is that the plane doesn't follow VNAV rules and descends. I had to choose APP mode to make a normal approach. I thought they fixed this issue but looks like its still there.

 

 

Only problem is that the plane doesn't follow VNAV rules and descends

Do you mean in general or only on final along the ILS? In the second case, that's pretty normal, since APP is the AP command to follow the ILS LOC and G/S in most (every?) plane.

 

 

I was able to land thanks to you.

 

Glad to be of help!

 

 

 

Only problem is that the plane doesn't follow VNAV rules and descends. I had to choose APP mode to make a normal approach. I thought they fixed this issue but looks like its still there.

 

 

 

Do you mean in general or only on final along the ILS? In the second case, that's pretty normal, since APP is the AP command to follow the ILS LOC and G/S in most (every?) plane.

 

There is such a thing as an RNAV approach that includes vertical constraints.  The RNAV approach for EGLL 09L shows ABAVI at 3000, L09LF at 2500. 

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-375BDE15092F45652B6398C1DFF650D0/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGLL_8-4_en_2012-07-26.pdf

 

The autopilot should at least be able to get the aircraft to L09LF at the proper altitude in LNAV/VNAV mode, it seems to me.  I'm not sure what happens in the CS T7 with VNAV descents, but in climbs it often overshoots altitude constraints and quite a few people have complained about excessive rates of climb.

 

Mike

 

 

 

The autopilot should at least be able to get the aircraft to L09LF at the proper altitude in LNAV/VNAV mode, it seems to me

DIdn't know that, thanks for the clarification

To me it just seemed like the problem was about ILS, and - correct me if I'm worng again, but how I understand your post is that the LNAV/VNAV thing applies for RNAV approaches, but not for ILS  - for ILS approaches you need to be in APP mode to get the airplane descend properly.

 

 

To me it just seemed like the problem was about ILS, and - correct me if I'm worng again, but how I understand your post is that the LNAV/VNAV thing applies for RNAV approaches, but not for ILS - for ILS approaches you need to be in APP mode to get the airplane descend properly.

For an ILS approach certainly the aircraft needs to have APP armed and ready to capture both the localizer and the glideslope. (Also the localizer can be captured first by using LOC, then switching to APP to remain on the localizer and capture the glideslope.) As far as I can tell, the original issue arose from the aircraft not being set up properly to capture the localizer and glideslope.

For an RNAV approach I am not sure if or when APP is engaged. I don't think LNAV/VNAV can fly the aircraft right to the runway. The instructions on the EGLL 9L RNAV approach state that ILS reception is necessary for the missed approach, but this requirement is not stated for the approach itself. I am guessing that after the final fix, the pilot switches to a visual approach.

In any case, prior to the final approach, LNAV/VNAV ought to be able to follow the STAR and at least get the aircraft to the initial approach fix, including all altitude constraints.

Mike

When should I arm APP mode?

 

 

When should I arm APP mode?

 

When you are on a course able to intercept the localizer at a reasonable angle (say 45 degrees or less).  In the above 9L approach, by about GWC35.  Some aircraft will start descending on the glideslope before they have intercepted the localizer (i.e. before they are lined up with the runway).  That can be dangerous.  You have to keep an eye on when and whether the localizer and glideslope have actually been intercepted. 

 

Mike