I have the Latin VFR scenery for San Diego (KSAN), but before that I used the Fly Tampa version. When I had the Fly Tampa version I had a approach file that came with the official Alpha India Group AFCAD for the scenery. Can I still use that approach file even though I do not have the Fly Tampa scenery anymore? Will it cause problems with the Latin VFR scenery?

The FS9 ATC system will not automatically vector you for ILS approaches to any completely new runways added via addon airport sceneries and/or their related Afcad type files. For this reason approach files are necessary for each new non original FS9 runway, otherwise ATC will keep giving you visual approaches even allthough addon ILS localizerers are in fact present.

Therefore, if your "Fly Tampa" KSAN and your new "Latin VFR" KSAN both have the same new runway, added since FS9 was first published, you will keep needing the appropriate approach file. However, I'm assuming here that the "Latin VFR" KSAN did not come with it's own approach file.

To be sure I would want to advise you to rename your existing "Fly Tampa" approach file's BGL extension to e.g. XXXX, shut FS9 down, restart and then fly under ATC from anywhere to KSAN to see if ATC will vector you correctly for an ILS approach. If you are vectored for a visual approach you should rename the XXXX extension back to BGL and repeat the process. I see no reason why the Fly Tampa approach file should not work for the Latin VFR runway, unless of cause their headings deviate strongly.

I have no experience with an active approach file for a non existant runway.

 

I hope this helps

Hans

It is best if the afd file that comes with an add-on scenery can be used. A third party afd file not intended for a specific add-on can have positional differences of airport elements, etc.

 

Hopefully the designer used an app that creates and allows editing for the invisible approach layer when creating the afd file or created an approach afd file named for appropriate priority if in the same scenery folder.

 

You can examine the afd type file by using the freeware Airport Design Editor and then switching to the approach view. It will not show default approaches or those in separate files but any added if built in to the afd type file.

 

To open an afd type file (AF2_, AFX_, or ADE for some_) start ADE and then select File, Open Airport direct from bgl, browse to the afd type file, and select open. A view similar to afcad called the airport view will appear. Then click Approach Mode in the upper right. The do list navaids to see if the LOC/ILS is listed. (It may still show on the diagram.) If not, try List Approaches to see if any were added within that file.

 

To see what default approaches are in place from default (stock) stock airports, use file/open stock airport, and follow the procedure I outlined. That can save as an example. Default airport approaches as do LOC/ILS navaids stay in place in FS9 and can not be deleted. For default existing ILS/LOC navaids within FS9 only certain modifications can be made just as an FYI.

 

FWIW ADE adds default approaches when you create an ILS in that editor. You can then modify or create approaches as shown in airport published charts, not a trivial task.

 

Some designers with using airport editors other than AFCAD create separate .bgl approach files.

 

If a proper approach layer approach has been created for a new runway or modified runway, then as stated FS9 ATC will let you use that runway under IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) or IFR rules, when VMC conditions are not occurring.

 

Actually editing with ADE has a bit more learning curve than AFCAD. You can read about it here:

http://www.airportdesigneditor.co.uk/

 

Note that the approach subjects in the approach layer affect the default FS9 GPS, ATC, and operation of ai. A LOC/ILS added in AFCAD or other non approach layer capable editor will still be seen on the instruments of the user aircraft.

 

I welcome any corrections, Hans

Thanks guys. When I have some time I will try what Hans suggested and fly to KSAN.

Ronzie,

 

If we use an example we may be able to see more clearly if we are talking about the same thing. Below is the way I've always understood it.

 

Example:

 

A completely new addon airport that did not exist on the original FS9 CDs.

 

Apart from all the addon visible buildings, runways, taxiways, etc, a directly related invisible ground layout contained in e.g. an Afcad2 or an ADE file is always necessary, especially for the AI aircraft to follow. It will most probably also contain ILS/GS localizers for the runway(s) included in this new airport. However, for ATC to be able to vector you to these previously unknown ILS/GS localizers FS9 must be informed separately about them otherwise ATC will only vector for visual approaches. For this I've always used a rather simple freeware program called "Approach Creator" and the resulting file(s) should normally be placed in the main FS9 Scenery/Generic folder.

 

The above also holds true for any addon airports which contain one or more new ILS/GS equipted runways which did not previously exist in the original FS9 airport. The same procedure can also be used when,e.g. a user would want to be vectored for ILS/GS approaches to a previously existing BC (back course) only runway. However, that's NOT "as real as it gets". LOL.

 

It must also be made clear here that by far most addon airport scenery developers include their own approach files in their packages.

 

Comments are welcome because one can never be too old to learn.

 

Hans

Approach Creator uses the same basic idea of creating the approach in the invisible approach layer. I did not download it to look in the manual.

 

There was a different approach tool being created by Jim Vile and that tool is now integrated with ADE. One of the results is that if you add an ILS/LOC with ADE a default semicircular approach is created in that layer. You can then add intersections and approach legs based on the IAF and FAF points if you wish. I don't know if Approach Creator offers the same flexibility.

 

In ADE the approach is part of the afd type .bgl file created. A separate .bgl is not required to be placed in the FS9/scenery/generic folder.

 

A designer can use either method according to the tools available.

 

In FS9 loosely related is the fact that you can not delete a default ILS/LOC and only modify certain properties. They cannot be excluded in the approach layer.

 

Here is a screen shot of the default KMSP 12L ILS approach view to edit if you wish. Like AFCAD, clicking on a leg brings up its properties:

 

 

 

Note the dashed path for the missed approach including the hold. In the zoomed out view here you can't see the labels of the approach waypoints but you can also hover over them.

 

Use whatever method works for you. You have the correct idea.

Ronzie,

 

I'm puzzled now because KMSP is still an original default airport in my setup and should therefore cause no ATC approach vectoring problems for the two parallel ILS/LOC equipted runways.

 

However, the main subject of this thread was whether or not a separately created approach file should be active for any new addon ILS/LOC equipted runway so that ATC could recognise the new situation and subsequently vector you correctly for an ILS landing on it. An embedded further question was whether or not such an approach file, in whatever form and created for one addon airport's new runway, would also work correctly in another version of the same airport containing the same new runway. In my opinion both answers should be "Yes".

Such approach files should in fact always be included in any addon airport's scenery package when new and non original ILS/LOC equipted runways are added.

 

It remains an interesting issue though and I'm now very inquisitive as to how the dotted line path and holding pattern in your screen shot was made and how you got it to show up. I'm scratching my head on this one.

 

I downloaded the latest version of ADE from the Scruffy Duch site and must assume that all of Jim Vile's expert additions are now included, although I cannot find anything to ths effect anywhere within the program.

Could you please elaborate a little on this because as far as I know Jim Vile has only made quite some approach patterns in the past for a number of airports including Kai Tak and Innsbruck, where user and AI aircraft needed to dodge high ground and/or mountains during their ILS approaches. Without Jim Vile's approach files AI aircraft would fly straight through these mountains while user aircraft would crash into them.

 

Thanks in advance.

Hans

I just used the default KMSP airport as a screenshot example of what an add-on approach file should display in the approach layer if a new ILS/LOC is added within the afd bgl gile with ADE or other design utility. The default KMSP has what a properly designed approach should look like. Not all defaults in FS have that.

 

Jim Vile provided the tool within ADE to create approaches. In the regular ADE download his actual approach files are not included. In the libraries here you can find some by him and others. One of them is included with the FRF KMSP scenery:

 

kmspv5.zip

 

here on AVSIM. See the readme and the description. This was designed prior to ADE and thus is placed in that separate folder.

 

Jim tagged the ILS 35 bgl file as an afd type and if you go to the scenery\generic\scenery folder where you were told to place it and open it in ADE and go to the approach view you'll see what he did.

 

If you wish you can just extract that one 35  jv file into a test folder and look at it with ADE. You do in approach view List, Approaches, and double click the ILS 35 entry.

 

 

 

I think he maybe imported or improved the other approaches and he also on the airport view added some buildings that you'll see but they may have been excluded by William Morgan - not sure.

 

Similarly I have the 9 Dragons old VHHH scenery installed and they did the same thing designing an approach for R13 in their add-on.