Seat Layout Air Austral

[Galskiman 5]

Hi guys,

 

I noticed that the seat configuration is not correct at the Air Austral 777-200LR

 

I read : 14 seat first class

             48 seats business

             172 seats economy

 

but it should be : 14 first  /32 business /316 econ

 

 

is there a way to adjust it ?

 

 

 

cherrs galskiman

 

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

Weight it weight, it doesn't matter.

[iFlySimX 751]

Weight it weight, it doesn't matter.

 

Way to answer the question lol

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

is there a way to adjust it ?

 

Currently, no.

 

In the end, as Jordan mentioned, weight is weight, so just load the equivalent weight of the extra passengers using the ZFW entry.

 

 

 

Way to answer the question lol

 

Way to follow forum rules?

 

Either way, it did essentially get to the root issue:

Weight is weight.  Cursory passenger "counts" mean nothing, really, other than the superficiality that most simmers feel they need.

[Galskiman 5]

Basically, you're right Kyle. But would it then be not more rigorously  to represent only the ZFW, as something else that is not true ? 

And the discussion what to "need" or not would be a never ending story .

Do we need different clique sound on every button ? No, but nice to have. :wub: And just such details  differs PMDG from all other.

 I was just amazed. Since I am of the opinion that  PMDG  represents the most realistically  simulation out there.And the cabin layout is as a technical characteristic of the aircraft as the left passenger sign configuration....and just as important? :rolleyes:

 

But however , thank you for your information Kyle.

[ysfsim 22]

 

 

Either way, it did essentially get to the root issue:

Weight is weight. Cursory passenger "counts" mean nothing, really, other than the superficiality that most simmers feel they need.

I see your point. I remember asking about it for the ngx and got rejected. To me it was not just a matter of how many seats are available for my airline but also weight distribution. Say  we have a plane with no cargo in the holds. The cg would be different for an all economy layout than for 3 class or 2 class layout; not to mention custom layouts. Is this what the real issue is? Granted a t7 is a larger aircraft and a bunch of people my not affect the cg but it gets more apparent on smaller aircraft. If we just add weight to make up for the missing pax, how do we know how much more to add to the for or aft holds?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

If we just add weight to make up for the missing pax, how do we know how much more to add to the for or aft holds?

 

Standard passenger weights X the number of passengers (assume first and business are ahead of the wing - can compensate in the FWD hold weight) = group weight.

 

Follow the standard private pilot stuff for CG calcs (weight X arm = moment, etc).

 

Honestly, you're never going to see a plane take off with zero cargo - ever.  Passengers are honestly cheaper to leave behind than bags (I'm not joking), so they'll stuff the bins and leave people behind in the end.  Cargo accounts for a significant portion of the weight.  Airlines make a lot of money off of their shipping, not their passengers: http://www.deltacargo.com/ (ever see a dedicated Delta Cargo plane?  Nope.  So where does it go?  Passenger flights.)

 

So, while I see what people are getting at every time they bring up the weight distribution, you can just adjust the values in the cargo holds to accommodate this.  Honestly, even if you could adjust those numbers, I doubt PMDG has access to the data that would tell them exactly where these seats would be (if anything, they probably take the mean arm for the class).  All that to say, even if the numbers were editable, you're still not going to get the exact same CG as the real plane.  You'd have to adjust for differences in the arms for each class, and those change as the number of seats change for each group.  That's a lot of intense work for a nearly meaningless passenger count, really.

 

Again, weight is weight.  Utilize the cargo entries to adjust for the CG difference.

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

The cg would be different for an all economy layout than for 3 class or 2 class layout; not to mention custom layouts. Is this what the real issue is?

 

The only thing CG really affects is the stab setting for takeoff, but again this is just a number so for all practical purposes it doesn't really matter.

 

CG does influence drag, but again this makes next to no difference (for example, there isn't even an entry for it in PFPX).

[maukro_1990 38]

I opened a topic about changing the maximum seating capacity and seating configurations for this airplane! PMDG told me/ us that they try to create the option to setting up different seating configurations for each livery (in the .ini file). I´m sure that we´ll get the possibility to carry more than 234 passengers with our -LR. Okay, weight is weight but it will be a great feature, i think! 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Yup, there's a reason I used italics earlier when I said "currently, no."

[Galskiman 5]

Ok, you don't get the point. So let me ask you: Why you turn you passenger sings on, before take off ? Its stupid, because there are no passengers. in the cabin. Why turn the taxi lights on ? You can taxi without them, no problem.

Why you start you flight at the gate and not at the runway ?

Why not starting the engines simlpy with ctrl+e ? The important thing is, that they are running, right ? Why than putting so much work on that little things ? Because we are simmers.

So the point is we are doing a simulation and the aim of a simulation is to do it as real as it gets. This is the reason why we buy PMDG and not the other well known competitor for example. You can fly with these aircrafts also from point A to point B.

And if you fly online on vatsim or ivao, why you can put the amount of pax at the flight plan? Its basically nonsens.I tell you because we are simmers.

 

cheers galskiman

[ysfsim 22]

Follow the standard private pilot stuff for CG calcs (weight X arm = moment, etc).

...... why did this solution slip my mind :mellow:

[maukro_1990 38]

Ok, you don't get the point. So let me ask you: Why you turn you passenger sings on, before take off ? Its stupid, because there are no passengers. in the cabin. Why turn the taxi lights on ? You can taxi without that, no problem.

Why you start you flight at the gate and not at the runway ?

Why not starting the engines simlpy with ctrl+e ? The important thing is, that they are running, right ? Why than putting so much work on that little things ? Because we are simmers.

So the point is we are doing a simulation and the aim of a simulation is to do it as real as it gets. This is the reason why we buy PMDG and not the other well known competitor for example. You can fly with this aircraft also from point A to point B.

And if you fly online on vatsim or ivao, why you can put the amount of pax at the flight plan? Its basically nonsens.Because we are simmers.

 

cheers galskiman

I really think that scandinavian13 and the other users understand you, there is no need to get angry ....! I think PMDG should just change the maximum seating capacity from 234 to 400 (single class) so everyone could load the desired quantity of passengers. Okay: There´s no real 777-200 LR which carry up to 400 seats but theoretical this aircraft could carry 400 passengers in a single class. 

 

I think that would be more than enough. 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Ok, you don't get the point.

 

As Maurice mentioned, I think it's you who isn't understanding my point.

 

I fully understand yours:

You want different passenger numbers.  Currently, this is not available.  The only way you can compensate is to accommodate those extra "passengers" as weight.  That's what I was getting at.  The added weight feels the same to the plane whether it's cargo, people, feathers, or lead, provided it's distributed on the same ratio.

 

I get that having accurate counts of passengers for the airline you're flying would really enhance the superficial simming experience, just like turning on the fasten belts sign does before takeoff, or adjusting the temperature because "the FA told you it was a little warm back there."

 

As I mentioned earlier, trying to program a feature to adjust for every possible configuration exactly would be difficult and more work than it's worth.  So, for now, your only option is to add those "people" as weight into your ZFW, and if you really want to adjust the balance of the CG, you can adjust the weights between the fore and aft holds.

 

 

 

I get it, but I also temper my want for the experience with a decent amount of realism.  Yes, DAL's 77Ls have several more passengers on their flights than can be added on that page.  No, I don't care what the passenger numbers say because the plane flies the same whether it shows a 180 pound passenger in that seat, or 180 extra pounds in the cargo hold.  As has been said: weight is weight.  If they removed that function where you could load by classes / passenger numbers and only gave you ZFW, you could still assume passengers are back there.  You just wouldn't see the breakdown between classes.  As a pilot, it really doesn't matter.  What do I need to know?  Is my weight and CG in limits?  Yes.  Okay.  Done.

[maukro_1990 38]

As Maurice mentioned, I think it's you who isn't understanding my point.

 

I fully understand yours:

You want different passenger numbers.  Currently, this is not available.  The only way you can compensate is to accommodate those extra "passengers" as weight.  That's what I was getting at.  The added weight feels the same to the plane whether it's cargo, people, feathers, or lead, provided it's distributed on the same ratio.

 

I get that having accurate counts of passengers for the airline you're flying would really enhance the superficial simming experience, just like turning on the fasten belts sign does before takeoff, or adjusting the temperature because "the FA told you it was a little warm back there."

 

As I mentioned earlier, trying to program a feature to adjust for every possible configuration exactly would be difficult and more work than it's worth.  So, for now, your only option is to add those "people" as weight into your ZFW, and if you really want to adjust the balance of the CG, you can adjust the weights between the fore and aft holds.

 

 

 

I get it, but I also temper my want for the experience with a decent amount of realism.  Yes, DAL's 77Ls have several more passengers on their flights than can be added on that page.  No, I don't care what the passenger numbers say because the plane flies the same whether it shows a 180 pound passenger in that seat, or 180 extra pounds in the cargo hold.  As has been said: weight is weight.  If they removed that function where you could load by classes / passenger numbers and only gave you ZFW, you could still assume passengers are back there.  You just wouldn't see the breakdown between classes.  As a pilot, it really doesn't matter.  What do I need to know?  Is my weight and CG in limits?  Yes.  Okay.  Done.

 

Great answer!!!