What are guys vertical speeds when touch down? Sure, the lower the vertical speed, the better. However, one can't be expected to be perfect very time. I did some calculations, a vertical speed of 350 ft/min at touch down is about the same as jumping off from a height of 16.129 cm. I guess that wouldn't hurt.

A good landing should result in about 100-200 fp/min vertical speed. The gear will collapse (or some damage) when you go above 600 fp/min.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

True. However, I was talking from the passage comfort perspective.

>However, I was talking from the passage comfort>perspective. So did I. I repeat: 100-200 is a good landing. Anything above and pax will notice hard landing.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

On heavy aircraft and large business jets a touchdown of 300 to 500 fpm is acceptable but hard. On older business aircraft with the straight lading gear, anything over 200 fpm is considered a rough landing and more often than not will result in a second landing (bounce). On the newer, more modern business aircraft with trailing link landing gear you can go upwards of 400 fpm and still have a pretty smooth landing.So, a short answer to your question, there is no one good answer, just depends on weight, rw length, weather and so on but if you shoot for a final flair of 100 to 200 fpm you'll have happy passengers.Now, from a RW prospective, if I make an exceptionally good landing, I might get 1 out of 150 passengers who notices. Now, not if - but when I have one of those "settle the baggage" landings where I bump earth pretty good or even worse return to the air for a second attempt, I get about 140 out of 150 passengers who are more than willing to make a comment as they head out the door to the jetway.Try a night landing into Billings Montana with wicked winds. The airport is situated on a bluff overlooking the city and it is really easy to loose ones perception of altitude and arrive at the runway a little sooner than expected. If I got paid for each landing, I would double my pay almost every trip into Billings. Thanks to the Boeing designers for a tough 727 and the fact that the final approach is flown with the nose pitched up or there would be a grave-yard of -27's at Billings with no nose gear.

To translate the issue into more recognizable form, divide FPM by 60 to get feet per second. You will see that at 200 FPM, landing would be like dropping a heavy object from 3.3 feet in one second...still pretty firm...although the landing gear will absorb a good part of the impact.As a RW pilot, I have never attempted to determine fpm at touchdown. Rather, I am paying attention to executing the landing with outside visual cues.The idea is to accomplish the flare so that in the level portion, the wheels are VERY close to the runway...like 2-3 feet...better yet, 1-2 feet. Since you have leveled off, your rate of descent gets to zero momentarily..especially given the aid of "ground effect."Then what happens is as airspeed bleeds off, ground effect begins to subside and a sink begins. You can feel that sink in the seat of your pants in the RW but unfortunately, not in a sim.To continue, you have leveled off and gotten into the cushion of ground effect which begins to dissipate and the sink starts and NOW the dynamics of the landing will take place. As you start to sink you HOLD THE AIRPLANE OFF the runway with a gentle but steady increase in back pressure on the yoke. I can STILL hear my initial instructor yelling HOLD IT OFF....DON'T LET IT LAND.Soon, the nose is rotated above the horizon and you just keep holding it off and then SQUEEK! (But you have to have your speed right or you will balloon and then get to choose which of 2-3 subsequent "landings" you like the best! I have always thought the the word "flare" and the phrase "rounding out" were detrimental to understanding what actually happens. "Flare" is too dramatic a word and the final landing phase is ANYTHING BUT "round."It's round at first and then VERY flat and from flat, it angles down in a very shallow fashion.The "initial approach to the final landing phase" i.e. glideslope speed must be at different fpm for different aircraft due to groundspeed issues, but in lighter ships between 400-500 fpm usually works.As you begin to round out, the fpm probably declines to 200 fpm or so and that is when most private pilots do and SHOULD stop paying attention to that value and begin to keep their gaze out the windows.Calculating when the flat portion of the maneouver should begin is what it is all about and practice is the only solution but here's a tip.Concentrate on the END of the runway. On the final approach, say a half mile final, your shoulders will appear to be well above an artifical horizon line drawn at the end of the runway, parallel to the actual horizon.But just as it is time to get to the flat part of the "round out" your shoulders will appear to be LEVEL with that artificial line. It is at THAT point that you should be level and you will get a definite feeling of ground effect which, if your approach speed is correct, is your best friend. You will feel it when you get in it and you will feel when it starts to dissipate and THAT is EXACTLY when you start to use back pressure to HOLD IT OFF.Again, there is no ground effect in a sim so use the shoulders level with a line drawn at the end of the runway parallel to the actual horizon line and that is where ground effect would kick in, in the RW. At that point just hold it off.Those visual clues may not apply to big jets...King Airs are the largest machines I have flown. Maybe some heavy iron drivers will comment on how the above translates into their worlds.Regards,Jim

0 fpm at touchdown.

I had two different instructors as part of my every 6th month self imposed check ride ( something I did for safety) tell me that I landed the plane as well as they did. That was the greatest feeling in the world to get a compliment like that from a CFI. I also got a big kick out of passengers that I took up for their first "small plane flight" in a C172 commenting after a landing , " I didn't even realize that we had landed". :). Thing I enjoyed most was going to the airport after work, renting a plane, and doing an hour of touch and goes. Always trying to make the upcoming landing better than the last one.

There IS a groudn effect record in the airfile, you can raise thos values and indeed notice a bit more the effects desribed here.It is normally too low in the airfile so you dont notice much.Johan[A HREF=http://jdserver.no-ip.com]Personal Server[/A]or..http://62.238.33.10

As a RW pilot, I have never attempted to determine fpm at touchdown. Rather, I am paying attention to executing the landing with outside visual cues.>>>>>>>>I land the same way in the sim...I don't watch the ROD...I watch the runway, and the ground off to my side. . I can STILL hear my initial instructor yelling HOLD IT OFF....DON'T LET IT LAND.>>>>>>>>Probably true for most props. But jets like to be driven onto the runway with a bit less flare. But it depends on the weather, runway cdx, etc...If it's a clear day, and all is swell with the world, I'll do a greaser. I mean so smooth you can't hardly tell you have landed.My ROD at landing is nearly 0, like one guy said. But if the weather is rainy, slick, snow, etc, I'll land harder on purpose. It's safer that way, despite any complaints from the PAX. I noticed the real world flights often do the same. The last time I flew on Southwest to DAL, it was raining, and slick. The driver landed pretty firm, and it was reverser city to avoid braking until the end of the rollout. It's a safety thing...The quicker you have all the wheels planted on a wet runway, the better. Real world pilots do that on purpose. It's not like they forget how to land in rainy weather...:)Often on the props, a big flare is called for. On a learjet fer instance, which I fly a ton, you flare, but not near as much. You almost drive the jet into the runway. When I do flare, it's real low...Like 50 ft from the ground, when I start.... But at touchdown, the ROD will be low. Less than 50...Often when I land the lear, I'll set up the flare, etc, and often I can totally let go of the yoke at 50 ft or less, and just let it settle on in. With the trim set right, and the airspeed right, a big flare is unneeded, and on many jets, undesirable. But most props will have the yoke in your lap by touchdown...:) MK

I know this is too general a question, but how should I be setting the trim for landing, say in a KingAir 200?Rego

hehehehe I catch that one! It's like this:What's the first thing you do when you get a flat on your car?Go down 4"....Harry

<>Right Johan, but what I meant was that you cannot FEEL ground effect in the sim.Regards,Jim