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Ben Cap

2014 Biannual Upgrade

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Hi,

 

I have been a lurker and an active poster around here for quite some time. 2 years ago, I dove into this small community and was given help by a few members to build the computer that I am still currently using today. With the advent of new Intel Processors and Nvidia GPUs, I was considering doing a new build at the end of this year. I am looking for 20-30% performance gains.

 

I plan on upgrading my CPU, mobo, RAM and GPU to the following

4770K

2600MHZ RAM

Asus Mobo of some sort

GTX780/770

 

What are your thoughts? Any ideas? Should I wait?

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Ben, I came from a system virtually identical to what you have now with the exception of having a GTX 680 and some 2133Mhz RAM, but my 2600K was also at 4.9Ghz.

 

I now have the system you can see in my profile. I have been very happy with my upgrade and performance seems overall smoother, FPS are better in FSX but not earth shattering. Smoothness for me is where I 've seen the improvement.

 

Keep in mind though that I also went from a 1080P monitor to a 1440P monitor, so my performance increases would have been more defined if I was still on the lower resolution. That being said, I could never go back to the lower resolution and I am getting better performance now at 1440P than I was on my old system at 1080P.

 

CPU/RAM I think you've made the right choices. Just try to get the RAM with the lowest latency possible. You would also do just fine with some 2400Mhz sticks.

 

GPU, coming from a 660ti I wouldn't go below a 780, specially if you plan on going for a higher res/multi monitor setup. That's my opinion only though. Buying at the end of the year may serve you well. The 780ti is due mid November and while pricing/specs haven't formally been released, it's likely the 780 will drop in price and the 780ti will fill it's price point. We'll obviously have to wait and see though.

 

Don't expect to see a MASSIVE improvement FSX wise (don't get me wrong there will be some improvements), but any other games you use will likely see a boost in performance from the GPU upgrade alone.

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GPU, coming from a 660ti I wouldn't go below a 780, specially if you plan on going for a higher res/multi monitor setup. That's my opinion only though. Buying at the end of the year may serve you well. The 780ti is due mid November and while pricing/specs haven't formally been released, it's likely the 780 will drop in price and the 780ti will fill it's price point. We'll obviously have to wait and see though.

 

I plan on keeping my monitor for the foreseeable future. I am hoping that I could get a 780 for under $470.


Don't expect to see a MASSIVE improvement FSX wise (don't get me wrong there will be some improvements), but any other games you use will likely see a boost in performance from the GPU upgrade alone.

 

I'm not expecting a big increase but I am hoping to add some smoothness to those areas where it is really needed. (Rainy night Triple 7 app into JFK)

 

Thanks so much for your input! - Looks like I am going to end up on a 4770 with some speedy ram and a 780.  :biggrin:

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I am hoping that I could get a 780 for under $470.

 

I think you'll be hard pressed to do that at the moment, but who knows what the prices will drop down to at the end of the year.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for your input! - Looks like I am going to end up on a 4770 with some speedy ram and a 780.

 

You won't be dissappointed with the combination! What cooler will you be using for the CPU? You'll want something pretty decent if you plan on overclocking towards 4.5Ghz.

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You won't be dissappointed with the combination! What cooler will you be using for the CPU? You'll want something pretty decent if you plan on overclocking towards 4.5Ghz.

I'm going to be using a Corsair H100. I currently use it on my 2700K with excellent results.

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IMO. Your best keeping what you have and upgrading to a Gsync enabled monitor after the first of the yr. The Gsync monitor is going to offer much more of a performance benifit that any CPU or GPU upgrade,

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H100 should work ok, but the 4770K can be one hot little puppy. I'm on a H110 @ 4.5Ghz but from what I gather my CPU is pretty good so far as how much voltage I need etc. I also have HT on.

 

So far as the GSync monitors being a better option, I'm not so sure it would be better to spend your money there. Time will tell, but until the monitors are out and there are reviews/user experiences reported I wouldn't be holding my breath. 20FPS whether it's on a GSync Monitor or not is still 20FPS. Sure it should be smoothed out a lot on the GSync monitor, but I say wait for the reviews.

 

In the meantime, 4770K, GTX 780 and some fast RAM has proven to be a fantastic combination for FSX. You can always upgrade your monitor down the track if GSync proves to be truly worth it.

 

I for one won't be going for a Gsync though unless it comes in 1440P flavour. No going back to 1080P once you've tasted the higher resolution.

 

EDIT: Just been reading up more on GSync and according to a number of articles it enforces a minimum refresh rate of 30Hz (Same as current 1/2 Vsync tweak).  If the frame rate drops below 30 fps, the display will present duplicates of each frame. So as far as FSX goes with 30FPS being the goal and most experiencing dips below that, I don't see this actually providing much if any benefit to FSX. Other titles will benefit ofcourse though.

 

 

Interestingly, for some monitors it looks like there is going to be a DIY upgrade to add GSync.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7436/nvidias-gsync-attempting-to-revolutionize-gaming-via-smoothness

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_g_sync_preview_article,1.html

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ant_1984, on 22 Oct 2013 - 3:43 PM, said:

I have been very happy with my upgrade and performance seems overall smoother, FPS are better in FSX but not earth shattering. Smoothness for me is where I 've seen the improvement.

1+ for Rendi's reply.

 

ant_1984's reply clearly spelled it out: 'not earth shattering', 'seems overall smoother...'

 

You are going to get what amounts to maybe +10% performance boost coming as +15% by going to Haswell but likely less overclockability than your SB chip--so somewhere around 10% improvement in EVERY aspect of 'performance': frame rate, 'smoothness' or freedom from stuttering, and texture update rate. Since each one of these three basic aspects of 'performance' is weighted differently depending essentially on how one's hardware & software is setup. If all three of these aspects changed at the rate of 10%, then you will see just: +10% smoother, +10% fps, etc. 10% change in any one of these aspects is barely relevant in terms of total experience. Since overclocked SB debuted it has been the case that biggest need for improvement is at the low end: 20 fps in a very complex situation. Smoothness gets visibly worse. Adding 10% better 'performance' moves fps to 22, and smoothness +10% better. 10% just is what it is: significant, but small. Also, you could get a bad Haswell that isn't so overclocking friendly. So maybe Gsync isn't a bad idea!

 

I am liking how I have my SB-E setup now w/ HT enabled as I am seeing faster texture loading all else being equal. At 4.3 or 4.4Ghz I get really smooth, fast texture updates, and very good frame rate. Should I aim for 4.5 or 4.6Ghz w/ an HT-enabled SB-E? Why bother--it's a lot of watts added with ...10% better 'performance'. It's just not worth it to me.

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Since overclocked SB debuted it has been the case that biggest need for improvement is at the low end: 20 fps in a very complex situation. Smoothness gets visibly worse. Adding 10% better 'performance' moves fps to 22, and smoothness +10% better. 10% just is what it is: significant, but small. Also, you could get a bad Haswell that isn't so overclocking friendly. So maybe Gsync isn't a bad idea!

 

Only problem is though that below 30FPS, GSync has no benefit what so ever and will offer no change over what we currently see today. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

 

Now I understand that a 10% improvement is not worth it in your opinion for a number of reasons as we discussed in another thread not so long ago, but 10% can be completely worth it to another person.

 

I for one couldn't care less about the extra watts etc since I'm just trying to push my PC to get the best performance I can (which is a whole other hobby in itself) regardless of if it's in FSX or not, but then I also do a complete system upgrade every 2-3 years, and possibly GPU's inbetween. If my upgrade cycle was longer, as I believe yours is, then my thoughts may be different.

 

Everyone's position on this will be different and the individual needs to make up their mind on what they're comfortable with.

 

Now so far as my system upgrade from 2600K to 4770K goes, as I was saying previously the actual FPS increase was definite but not earth shattering, however it was the added smoothness that made the difference to me.

 

Which ever way Ben, or anyone decides to go with their upgrades, good luck and enjoy playing with your new tech toys! :smile:

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ant_1984, on 23 Oct 2013 - 8:17 PM, said:

Now I understand that a 10% improvement is not worth it in your opinion for a number of reasons as we discussed in another thread not so long ago, but 10% can be completely worth it to another person.

And I never said it wasn't, I was just pointing out the very real effects on performance in this type of upgrade, and said nothing about what someone's motivation or justification is for what they care to do w/ their parts and money. Oftentimes the question is posed in one form or another, 'what do you think about this upgrade?' or 'will I be able to run these settings etc etc' You responded w/ an opinion about what to expect and that it was worth it for you, and I added some quantitative content to the discussion. I like to hear all sides of an argument, especially when questions about opinion are asked.

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And I never said it wasn't, I was just pointing out the very real effects on performance in this type of upgrade, and said nothing about what someone's motivation or justification is for what they care to do w/ their parts and money. Oftentimes the question is posed in one form or another, 'what do you think about this upgrade?' or 'will I be able to run these settings etc etc' You responded w/ an opinion about what to expect and that it was worth it for you, and I added some quantitative content to the discussion. I like to hear all sides of an argument, especially when questions about opinion are asked.

 

Fair enough, perhaps I mistook your take on the sitation as can be often done through textual communication.

 

At the end of the day it comes down to what the user will be happy with and is prepared to do. I try to get every last bit out of my system (within reason) and for me the upgrade itself is part of the fun and something I enjoy, not only the end result.

 

So to me that "10%" or what ever the improvement may be is worth it, not solely for the improvement I get at the end, but for the fun I have tinkering with my system.

 

Ben, what ever you decide to do, Enjoy it!

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EDIT: Just been reading up more on GSync and according to a number of articles it enforces a minimum refresh rate of 30Hz (Same as current 1/2 Vsync tweak). If the frame rate drops below 30 fps, the display will present duplicates of each frame. So as far as FSX goes with 30FPS being the goal and most experiencing dips below that, I don't see this actually providing much if any benefit to FSX. Other titles will benefit ofcourse though.

 

 

Interestingly, for some monitors it looks like there is going to be a DIY upgrade to add GSync.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7436/nvidias-gsync-attempting-to-revolutionize-gaming-via-smoothness

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_g_sync_preview_article,1.html

Agreed, I was also very excited about this until I found out a minimum of 30 FPS is required. The only two advantages vs VSync 1/2 would be that you no longer need the internal FPS limiter (which decreases FPS) and you'll now have the great smoothness at higher framerates as well.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

 

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The only two advantages vs VSync 1/2 would be that you no longer need the internal FPS limiter

Arjen, if you haven't lately, try the 1/2 vsync w/ Inspector's external limiter at 30 and leave UFL at UNLIMITED. I find this really is the best of both worlds (smoothness & fps) and at least w/ HT enabled and the right AffinityMask this really seems to be far superior to internal limiter & 1/2 vsync, although goes against the conventional wisdom here. I get no penalty against texture loading w/ this approach. I'm using FFTF of .60 w/ this and have superb results.

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