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Original 737 PIC Jerky a/p Turns

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I did a google search with no luck.  A lot of people seem to be having this issue but I can't find a fix for it.


When a/p is engaged and I change heading, the behavior on the yoke is very erratic.  It's very choppy and jerky and goes all over the place violently.


Is there a fix for this? 

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For using LNAV - try changing the roll rates in the 733/734/735.ini files to:


;min/max rollrate




This should smooth the roll rate nicely (if this is what your question pertains to)


These .ini files are located in your DriveLetter:\FSX_Directory_Path\FeelThere\B737 folder.

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Hi Jim,

Sorry for the delay.  Been very busy and didn't have time to check back in over a week.  Bank angles are fine.  It's only the yoke and ailerons behaving violently during turns with a/p engaged.  I think same thing with the elevators as well.

I was looking for this vid to post on my original post but couldn't find it.  Finally found it by googling.


Here's the issue that I and many others have....

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Oh, ok, I misunderstood what you meant....yeah, I have the same problem, and I think probably everyone else has it as well.  I just ignore those visuals as best I can...haven't flown it in ages, though.  The fix I found was to smooth out the roll used to bank violently during LNAV turns, but now with those changes, the roll rate is very smooth.

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Thanks Jim.

That's too bad.  It's such a great add on.  I will probably upgrade to the 737 Evolution for FSX.  I really wanted the PIC to work in FS9 but I just can't seem to ignore the yoke problem lol.

I guess I'll get the PMDG 737 and iFly for FS9.

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Hi Maurice - yeah, it is too bad, but not unexpected.  The iFly 737NG is superior to the PMDG 737 NG for FS9, as it's a much younger product...I'd recommend iFly for FS9 and the PMDG NGX for FSX.  As far as a 737 classic goes, the Evolution is the only one out there that I know of at the moment, but QualityWings has now taken on the development of the EnigmaSim 737 classic, so we'll see what happens....

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Hi Maurice - yeah, it is too bad, but not unexpected.  The iFly 737NG is superior to the PMDG 737 NG for FS9, as it's a much younger product...I'd recommend iFly for FS9 and the PMDG NGX for FSX.  As far as a 737 classic goes, the Evolution is the only one out there that I know of at the moment, but QualityWings has now taken on the development of the EnigmaSim 737 classic, so we'll see what happens....


Hi Jim,

I wanted both versions because I remember reading somewhere that the old PMDG version is a little "lighter" on systems than the iFly. 

I enjoy both types but I find myself going with the easier planes most of the time lately.  I've been doing a lot of easy casual flights.


I do have the NGX for FSX and it's an excellent product.  By far the most advanced add on I have.  Even though I do have the NGX, I'm also VERY excited about the QW version coming out because I've been wanting a high visual quality 737 with lighter systems simulation.  I'm assuming it's going to be a lighter model because it's QW.


I will have to do some reading on the Evolution.  I plan to get try that or the 737 Professional by JF (I think it's the 200 series).

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Hi Maurice - for an "original" 737, I'd recommend the Milviz over the JF 732 (a big disappointment for me) - better FDE, modeling, one out there, imho.  I have the PMDG NG for FS9, and for its time, it was fantastic!  They are the BEST tubeliner developer, without question or equal....their 777X is incredible!  (Am waiting patiently for the 777-300ER variant!  As well as their 747-400 v2!)


One thing I would like to see is a 737 classic with no glass, with an FMC a la SWA's 733/735 variants - all "steam" gauges.  I flew on one of their -300s back in October between KBUR & KLAS, and it was cool to see it, and talk with the pilots about flying it!  I remember Ariane did a steam gauge 735 for FS9 that was ok, but it had no VC.  Since I use a triple monitor setup, I only fly in a VC, which is way more realistic anyway. 


Airliners I'd love to see for FSX/P3D, all in-depth -  B787, A380, the aforementioned steam 733/4/5, DC-10, as in your sig & screen name, 747-100/200/300....(the RFP 742 for FS9 is still one of the most comprehensive systems detailed/procedural airliners ever created for the PC platform....wish something like that would be done for FSX/P3D for a 747 classic!)


I prefer as in-depth as possible, but sometimes I like to just jump in and fly without a lot of prep, as you do-->QW 757 and I'm sure their upcoming 737 & 787 will be good for that.

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Thank you for the heads up, Jim.  I'll check out the Milviz.  I remember there was a long discussion about it but I didn't get far into it.  I just hope there's a Canadi>n livery.  It's very nostalgic for me and that's the thing that got my attention with the JF version 

I still haven't gotten the PMDG 777.  I'm waiting for the boxed version.  It does look pretty insane from the screens I've seen.  Looking forward to it.


Funny you mentioned the classics with steam gauges.  I was just watching one of my Justplanes dvd with the 732 non-glass cockpit and thinking how cool it would be to fly one of those in FS.

Must have been awesome for you in that cockpit.  I've only visited a 767 cockpit once when I was a kid.

Yeah, it's too bad with the Ariane not having a VC.  I only fly VC also.

Another one I would buy if a VC is ever released for it would be the Flight1 Fokker 70/100.  I can't believe there is no other high quality F-28/70/100 out there.


Looks like we both are looking for the same in-depth add ons.  I'm not really a fan of the 380 but it does look fun to fly in the sim.

Keep an eye on the CLS/JF 747 200/300.  They've been working on a patch for a while now to make it much more complex.


I'll have to look into the RFP for FS9.  I've never heard of RFP until you mentioned it.  I thought the PPS was the only complex 200 for FS9.


Since you're really into very in-depth planes, you should check out the Dreamfleet 727.  I hear it's also one of the most complex jets for FS9.


I'm really looking forward to the new QW stuff.  I'm still waiting for the shop near my house to get more copies of the QW 757.  I really want it because it's for both FS9 and FSX.  If they don't get more copies in soon, I'll probably just order online from someplace else.

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Hi Maurice -


Yes, the Milviz 732 is really good, and they do have a Canadian can download their livery pack for free from the product page.  The PMDG 737NG for FS9 was the first complex plane I ever bought for flight simulation, and I've been hooked on complex add-ons ever since.  The development through the years is nothing short of amazing, particularly with that company's offerings!  The 777 will blow your mind!  The only add-ons I don't have from them are their propliners....may check those out at some point, if I get inspired.


The Ready for Pushback 742 is now a free product, and you can find it in the AVSIM library, as well as additional liveries, panel mods, etc.  Also have a look in the RFP forum, seven forum links above this Wilco one.  The CLS 742/3 is very light...nowhere near the RFP version.  It would be nice if the CLS updated one would be much more in depth, but they're not known for that level of complexity/realism....we'll see.....


I have the Dreamfleet 727, and it's awesome....sure wish they'd update it for FSX/P3D, but I think further development on it is dead.


I agree about the F1 Fokker 70/ NEEDS a proper VC, but I don't know about any further development on that either.


Yeah, it was cool talking with the pilots after we landed in KLAS....I always try to chat with them, and have been invited into the cockpit a few times, which is very cool.  I've never been in a 757/767 cockpit, as I haven't flown on those aircraft types for many years, and the passenger door is always the second one back more towards the wing.


As far as the 787 goes, the Aerosim looks good, but has some odd's also expensive for the level of complexity, just a little above default planes (similar to CLS, I guess).  I'd LOVE to see PMDG do a 787, but it would be several years before they would get it done.  I hope the QW one will be superior to the Aerosim offering.  I have their 757, and it's ok --> one of those that's much more of a "get in, quick FMC setup and fly" plane than a systems does have some nice touches, too.  You'll enjoy it, I'm sure.  (Why wait for the boxed version?!  Just back everything up externally (and across multiple systems if you can).


I just got through watching the Just Planes new A380 blue ray....hence my longing for a "proper" A380 in FSX or P3D!  Yeah, it's an ugly beast, but it's amazing....loaded weight in excess of one MILLION pounds!  The free Project Airbus version is the only one (other than the Wilco) out's also available for both FS9 & FSX.  I've heard rumors of another developer working on's in the FSX forum somewhere, fairly recently, I think....


Also, if you're into WWII military planes, A2A is THE developer of choice - incredible stuff, and with the recent release of their C172, I can now fly the "real" plane I actually fly! (Though I fly the N & P models, not the R...yet, anyway).  It's pretty doggone close to the real thing....amazing!  I have most of their planes, and they're all excellent!


Yeah, go for the MilViz 732! :smile:

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Hi Jim,

That's perfect!  The old 737's with the Canadian livery is one of my favorites.  It will be the Milviz for sure.  Thanks.


I had no idea the RFP is now a freeware.  That's great news.  I remember seeing it for sale not too long ago on the JF website.

I agree.  The CLS 747 is very light.  I'm still curious to see how complex they can make that add on.  They've been working on it for a while now.  There will also be 3d lights on the update if I remember correctly.


A few years back I heard that they were going to develop a VC for the Fokker but I haven't heard anything new since.  I'm sure they could make more sales by offering us a VC.


I rarely travel at all now.  Did a lot of it up to my teens.  If I knew as much about aviation back then as I do now, it would have been nice to talk to the pilots.  I also remember back then, depending where you're flying, one can visit the cockpit during cruise just by asking a flight attendant.  You're very lucky to have had visited the flight deck and have conversations with the crew.


For the 787, I think I'm going to wait for the QW version.  The screen shots made me drool.  With their level of complexity, I should still be getting great frames but with killer eye candy.  I can run all my "lite" add ons at default Heathrow at a constant 30fps with 50% UT2 traffic and medium airport vehicles.  My settings are very low because my system isn't high end.  That's one of the main things I love about lower complexity add ons.  If I load up the NGX, ai traffic must go way down and all airport vehicles off.


Lol, quite a few people have told me to do the same thing with the downloads.  For some reason, I really prefer boxed versions and always wait for them.  I'm in no rush, as I have plenty of other planes to fly.  But if the itch gets worse, I think I will buy the download of the 757.  I really like that plane.


I was actually thinking about trying out one of the WWII planes.  I will check out the offerings from A2A, but first I have to play around with the JF DC-3 I purchased last month.  Still haven't had time to try it out yet because I've been flying jets whenever I get the chance.


Thanks again for the heads up on the Milviz.


Happy Flying :smile:


I didn't know JustPlanes released a 380.  I'm going to have a look next time I visit the aviation shop.  Also planning to get the A340-600 disc.  I saw the segment they released on youtube and it looks great.

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Hi Mauruce,


Some words about the MilViz B732:


1. READ the manuals, particularly about the FMC, as it's quite different than ones used on later Boeings.  No PDC is included with their version, just and FMC which does calculate your V-speeds, and you also can change the AP config between the Sperry 77 and 177, as well as aircraft configs between Pax, Cargo, or Combi.


2. For the additional repaints (including the Canadian Goose), you'll have to edit the aircraft.cfg file manually.  They do provide the text files for you to insert into it.  You'll also have to change the "atc_airline=" to the correct airline for each entry as they all say Boeing.


3. I have the Milviz, Captain Sim B732 and the Just Flight one.  The Milviz is the most complete and accurate one, and the most challenging to master.  The CS one is pretty good, and CS is supposed to update it in May, I believe....that would be my 2nd choice for a B732.  The JF one, as I said, was disappointing, and I have trouble getting it to behave as it should.


4.  Have you taken a look at the Tinmouse II B732 version, which is free and available here in AVSIM, along with its own forum link in the freeware section below?  A VC has been created for's REALLY good, especially for freeware!  It's available for both FS9 & FSX.


RFP 742 - yeah, I bought it back when it was for sale...if only I'd waited a couple of years!  There is talk about CS possibly doing a classic 747....time will tell.  (They do seem better at creating the steam gauge planes than the glass cockpit ones....see about their newly released L1011.  So far, it's getting really positive reviews!  I remember flying on those in the 1990s with Delta).  Time will tell about the CLS updates to their classic needs a LOT of work!


The Fokker - yup, heard that too, but nothing since.


I fly a few times a year, and go with SWA, since I can go out to Burbank, which is SOOOO much better than the insanity of KLAX!  As mentioned, when possible I try to talk with the flight crew....sometimes it's not possible, but I've been lucky a few times.


787 - yeah, don't get the Aerosim....wait for the QW version....I agree, the screen shots they've posted look fantastic!  Roger that about changing your settings depending on situation.  How's the JF DC-3?  I'm on the fence about that and their DC-8....


A2A - their Spitfire, P-40, P51, B-17, Piper Cub, and C172 are all fantastic, with their Accusim packages....amazing what that company has been able to do.  And their Accufeel add-on for FSX is really good as well.  Their planes also require reading the manuals!


Just Planes A 380 was released a couple of weeks ago, and it's a great blue ray disc!  I love their productions, both in the cockpit and their airport series....the first DVD I bought from them was the now sold out (twice!) Hapag-Lloyd Express B737-700....been hooked on them ever since!


Happy Flying, and let me know how you like the Milviz 732 (or any of the others, including the FREE Tinmouse!)

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Hi Jim,

Thank you very much for the heads up on the Milviz.

I've done the manual livery update a few years ago.  Hopefully I'll remember.  If not, I do have the instructions somewhere in my extra hard drive.


I agree about the CS stuff.  That L-1011 looks very impressive, however, I'm still learning the JF version.  Only flown it twice so far and ran into problems which were my fault for not even touching the manual :lol: .


If you have the CS727, would you say it's a good one?  I know it's not as good as the Dreamfleet version on FS9, but if the 727 is good to go out of the box, I may actually get that together with the Saitek radio panel.  I already have the multi panel, and I think it's going to be a lot of fun doing vor to vor with them.


I didn't know about Tinmouse until you mentioned it.  Thanks :smile: .  I'm going to try out the FS9 version later tonight or tomorrow.  I've been wanting to do some island hopping with a lite model and this looks perfect.


I haven't flown in the longest time, but if I happen to do it again in the future, I'll try to talk to the crew.  Would be a lot of fun if I get the chance, especially in an airplane I like.


I actually haven't flown the JF DC-3 yet.  I got it along with 3 other planes during a sale they had. 

I keep telling myself to fly something else, but everytime I fire up FS9 or FSX, I go straight to the PMDG MD-11.  I just love that plane and the systems. 


Yup!  I'm hooked on those aviation vids too.  I'd rather watch those than any movies.

I'm trying to collect an airport series called "Airports in the 90's" by Avion.  I have two so far and it's great to see all those older planes and tri-jets with beautiful liveries.


Another one I'm really getting into is the "Flight Deck Action" series by Viking Aviation.  They have somewhat of a different approach to their filming compared to JustPlanes.

The last one I got was the Red Wings.  This one is great with a unique Russian aircraft that looks like an A321 with a 3-man cockpit.

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Hi Maurice,


Yeah, doing a manual livery installation is pretty easy.  The actual livery folders are copied to the MilViz B732 folder, so you just open them up, open the aircraft text file which has the coding, copy it, then open the aircraft.cfg file, and paste it into the next available [fltsim=XX] section...don't forget to number each one [fltsim=10] for instance.  That the tedious part, since you have to do that for each new livery from the liveries installer.  Have you flown the Tinmouse yet?


I'm holding off on the CS L1011 until they release a service pack for it, which should be fairly soon....don't have the JF one.


I do have the CS 727.  It requires some tweaking to get things closer-to-right than straight out of the box, so to speak. The tweaks done to it by users are in the real CS support forum.  Also, they have not addressed the issue many people are having with the sound, but a quick reload of the plane seems to cure it, at least in my case.  I've set CTRL+SHIFT+R as the keystroke to reload aircraft.  If you've checked out X-Plane 10, the FlyJSim B727 is really good...better than the CS one, imo, but of course, you have to have XPX installed.  If you want the CS one, wait for one of their 9.99 euro sales.


Yeah, the PMDG MD11 is excellent...I fly it sometimes, and have to reacquaint myself with the McDonnell-Douglas way over Boeing or Airbus....they are (or, were) unique, no doubt.


For AV vids, I have mainly the JustPlanes ones, including their older LAX, Miami, etc...lots of older planes no longer seen much these days, if at all...very cool to watch those older jets, taking me back to earlier times....looks like Viking's offerings are worth checking out as well....nice video above, too.


See you later,


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Hi Jim,

I haven't flown the Tinmouse yet.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can't find the base pack.  Do you know the file name?


After some thought, I'm not sure if I will get the CS L-1011.  After doing some reading it sounds like you have to merge an aftermarket INS system and I just can't stand INS.  If they release an FMC, I will most likely get it.  But everytime I see the visual model, I start to drool.  So, we'll see...


Thanks for the info on the CS 727.  I will check out their forum for tweaks when I get it.  I remember there's also a patch you can download (from avsim, I think) that automatically calculates your V speeds for you.  This is great for someone like me who prefer medium complexity.


The sound should not be a problem.  I always purchase TSS sound packs whenever I get new planes.  The new 727 sound pack they released sounds great after checking out the video.


I watched the Frooglesim video on the 727 for XPX.  It looks great but I'm still going to wait before trying XPX due lack of seasons, ai program, airport buildings and because of my lower end system. 


I'll wait for the next 9.99 sale.  I missed out on the last one.


I hear ya on having to get reacquainted with the MD-11, especially if you haven't flown her for a long time.  I ran into so many problems due to this lol.  The systems are different and very unique.


Thanks for the reminder.  I forgot about those older JP airport vids.  I'll have to look for them next time I visit the aviation shop.  It was so different back then.


I got the QW 757 last night.  Got it installed into both FS9 and FSX.  I'm reaaaaally enjoying this one.  I have a feeling this might get as much, or maybe more use than the MD-11.  I also got the texture fix to make the VC windows clear.  I really like the way it handles too. 

The only downsides, IMO, is you have to have your mouse cursor over the number display to change your values on the autopilot.  I was also expecting to see much better fps on FSX because it's not that complex.  I'm getting FPS similar to the MD-11 in FSX which is pretty weird.


Thanks again for the help.

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Hi Maurice,


FSX Tinmouse files - - check out all of them in the list

FS9 Tinmouse files - - two versions available on the page, newer one on the bottom of the page.  As for above, check out all files listed.  The base pack is included in the lists for each FS platform.


The SP1 for the CS L1011 is supposed to have a fully functional INS for the VC....that's why I'm waiting until after they release SP1, as well as hopeful corrections to some errors in the initial release....we'll see.


There is a v-speed gauge available for the CS727, and I think it's here in the AVSIM library somewhere.  You can find the info on the CS forums for it, as well as integrating the single/double/triple CIVA INS as a 2-D great!  Regarding the sound problem, it's a persistent one that CS has not addressed, and I don't know if your idea of using the TSS sounds will address it or not.  Again, a simple aircraft reload seems to do the trick to get the sounds to play.


I agree about XPX, but it most likely is the platform of the future, as it's now 64 bit, and development is ongoing.  I have no idea why LM persists with P3D as a 32-bit platform (other than having to re-code everything from the ground up....64 is the way of the future).  XPX does need more 3rd party devs to hop on board, and more are coming over to the platform.  But you're right, the lack of AI traffic, quality ATC, only flying during summer, built in airport structures, etc. still make it less of an overall platform AT THIS POINT.  I'm really hoping that will change, because it has such GREAT potential!


QW's 757 was their first airliner (I believe), and I also have lower FPS on it than I "should"....hopefully their 787 will be better.  I don't have their BAE jet, so I can't comment on it.


JP vids - I think you can now also buy downloads of those older airport/cockpit videos and burn them to DVD yourself, as I know some of those offerings are "sold out" as DVD versions....check 'em out!


Let me know how you do with the Tinmouse....

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Thanks for the links, Jim.  I will download the FS9 version because I've gone back to DX10 for FSX.  I'm going to try it after some more flights on the 757.  I'm really enjoying it right now.

I'm also hoping the QW's new 787 and 737 are more fps friendly.


I'll also wait and see after the L-1011 service pack.  I'm going to fly the JF's version (only tried twice so far) and see if I want to get more in-depth with the tri-star.


Oh, I didn't know it was a different sound issue with the 727.  I thought it was bad quality or something.  Good to know you only have to re-load the plane.


I agree with you on XPX.  I'm still waiting for more updates and third party support.  I almost got the global version a few times when I was at the aviation store.  Who knows, I may walk out with it the next time I go there again lol.  I do have a 500G hdd I'm not using.  But I am worried about performance on my pc.


I forgot JP offer downloads.  That's good to know.  I'll buy them as downloads if I can't find them at the store.  There are two stores I visit which are side by side and one of them seem to always have the older dvd's.  I got quite a few old ones from there.    

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