"Wouldn't the NDA prevent anybody telling you that or you telling anybody else?"My thoughts exactly.I saw the thread this morning and refrained from comment because I thought we'd see posts like the one to which you asked this question. Jeroen probably states my beliefs better than I can--anything is conjecture, but part of the cost of doing business is whether the team members involved can have their heart in it and work efficiently. After reading the one comment, I wonder. As for the beta comment, I suspect it's an assumption based on the time of year vs. a fact based on experience or communication with anyone.-John

My ceo of my va, is friends with a beta tester. The news my ceo has forwarded on to me is that FS10 was being designed, and the beta is out. Thats all i know. He told me that his friend has become very tight lipped since the beta has been released to keep from letting out the new features. But also, what kind of evidence to we have to suspect that FS will no longer be. This is such a highly rated software, and used by a very large number of pilots or all sorts, virtual pilots, and aviation buffs. To me, dropping FS would be the same as MS dropping the production of the #1 xbox game, Halo 2. Just doesnt make since.All the talk of no more FS, came after the news that MS was dropping Train Sim and the Combat FS. If they would tell us that, why wouldnt they tell us that they were dropping FS. That would leave just a few PC games MS designs, and those games, arent as popular as FS.I do believe, and i am certain, we will see FS2006 out sometime this summer.

"My ceo of my va, is friends with a beta tester. The news my ceo has forwarded on to me is that FS10 was being designed, and the beta is out. Thats all i know. He told me that his friend has become very tight lipped since the beta has been released to keep from letting out the new features."Sorry--I don't disbelieve you, but I certainly don't believe hearsay posts. Every release, we hear "the friend of a friend" told me.... I think this forum is a bit wiser than that.-John

Yeah but MS dropping train sim and CFS you have to understand. Train simulations well it

In response to the subject:No, there isn't .....As to the timing of a possible FS10: everything you hear is just speculation (either positive or negative).I won't even bother to comment on the "friend-of-a-friend" hear-say.My opinion: (I emphasise: OPINION)- Yes , there's will be an FS10- No, it won't be in 2005.Why ??- Yes: FS is a cashcow, even for MS.- No, not in 2005: MS would never have released an FS9 "patch" at the end of 2004, if they were planning a FS10 release in 2005.After all, NONE of the FS9 "bugs" were show-stoppers (unlike the FS2000 or FS98 patches). To me (and I'm sure I'm not alone), the solved "bugs" in FS9 were not enough reason to even try to install it, given the (maybe only "perceived") problems in FS9.But then again, this is only MHO .. for what it's worth :-)Cheers, Rob

"To me (and I'm sure I'm not alone), the solved "bugs" in FS9 were not enough reason to even try to install it, given the (maybe only "perceived") problems in FS9."It's funny you mention that Rob. I still fly with the Autogen XML (Fast food, etc) disabled and I still fly with the Seasonal CDT Fix/Textures in place. Some like the landclass surrounding the airport, and it does help make the airport blend in more naturally with the scenery at a distance. But I prefer the more "open" look the texture fix gave, since almost every airport I've flown into, including those in heavily forested areas, has a clear swath of land surrounding the airport area."given the (maybe only "perceived") problems in FS9."I think you owe your fellow simmers more respect than slipping that one in there. The seasonal CTD issue was repeatable and proven and acknowledged by Microsoft in the patch. In general, I never had any negative effects with the 9.1 patch and the only repeatable problem I ever had with 9.0 was the seasonal CTD scenario that was posted by one of the users. The 9.1 patch did fix that, so it fixes something.-John

Yeah FS 2004 was definiatly not bug free. It would be the first game in history if so ;).It

One of the most interesting games I've run across in terms of patches is "No Limits" -- a coaster sim and I've been a coaster fan since those mop topped guys were making it big on the "really big sheeew"It's a pretty complex sim, with lots of physics modelling, a high performance rendering engine, user definable track and car sets, etc...Since its release ALL the updates have been free to the small but loyal paid user group. Some of the releases don't qualify as bug fixes. Bugs were fixed, but Ole always dropped in new features and it's arguably the most advanced sim in its genre, with terrain modelling, water reflections, etc.... It's certainly less of a game and more of a sim. My daughter goes nuts over it and it's fun to watch her sway back and forth as the train banks and turns. She nearly fell out of her chair when she experienced her first simulated loop :)I'm certain Ole will eventually charge for a major upgrade to his product. But I viewed the last few upgrades as "major" upgrades and it's hardly the same sim I first paid for. In our own hobby, the most famous "Free" major upgrade that comes to mind was when Dreamfleet added a retract. 177 to it's Cardinal package. Heck, I should be flying that right now...Cya later :)

Hi John,I do realise now that the word "perceived" is out-of-place here.Yes, they ARE real bugs.But, being Dutch, please realise that English is not my native language :-)What I ment to say: the way I fly FS9, I have never experianced those bugs myself, and have therefore no interest in installing the FS9 patch; if only for the potential RISK of introducing problems by doing so.And being a gauge designer, I'm more worried by other "bugs"in FS9 that were NOT solved. But the whole point of my message is: IMO FS9 (unlike the initial version of FS2000) is a very stable product (and again, Yes, with bugs, as in all software), but I cannot believe that MS has taken all the effort of releasing a patch for FS9 (for what IMO are relatively "minor" bugs) if they intend to release FS10 in 2005.Cheers, Rob

But then who would not want the extra performance the patch gives you. FS 2004 was indead a bit faster and smoother for me after installing the patch :)

Speaking of the patch, I kind of assumed (although you know what assumptions can lead to) that because MS hasn't released a patch in how many years, that it must be some kind of warning or bad news not to expect a FS10 out soon. If they were expecting to release FS10 sooner than later, then they likely would have been concentrating on the FS10 coding and not the patch. This is only conjecture on my part.

im not trying to put out false statements what so ever, i am just saying what i have heard. But if MS would announce that they would no longer be producing MSTS, or CFS, why would FS be a exception. I think that if they were no longer to produce FS, that we would have known a long time ago. This was the big deal this time of 2003. Will there be a FS2004, but look, here we are again, IN FS2004, reacting the same way again to FS2006. If MS dropped the FS, they might as well back away from the PC game market, since no one really takes Zoo Tycoon serious other than 4 and 5 year olds.If MS drops FS, it would be as sinceless as HP shipping out brand new Pavilion PC's with out motherboards. Just doesnt make since.

"If MS drops FS, it would be as sinceless as HP shipping out brand new Pavilion PC's with out motherboards. Just doesnt make since."I can understand that belief. Let me give you my shop as an example. At any given time, we have about ten projects on the plate whilst only having the resources for seven or eighr. All of the projects have big payoffs. But sometimes we've had to decide to drop a popular project because of the long term benefit of another. It's not a matter of profit so much as resources.You might say "no problem--the project will be profitable, so just get more resources". But training new resources soaks up profit very quickly. When I was new on my team I know I must have cost my company a small fortune. I had no business experience in the area I was supposed to manage. I really don't think I was productive until I had been on board a couple of years, which is interesting because my first boss told me to give myself two years before making conclusions about my fitness for the job.Those thoughts have nothing to do with the future of MSFS, but those are the types of things that could change it. My adopted industry is project driven, and sometimes the new project is just plain "sexier" than the old one. -John

True, but the cost that MS gives up for training of each designer is a tiny fraction of the profit they make after release wouldnt it? :-roll

IF there is a beta version of a new FS version out there and IF it's in the stage where people outside Microsoft have been distributed this version those people would be under a strict NDA which would bar them from even telling there is a beta version.Microsoft NDAs do NOT permit people to say anything at all about the product, including the fact that it even exists and they have it.Breaking that would exclude you from any beta program with Microsoft in the future and would mean you're thrown out of the current one.It may also mean legal trouble.In case you don't know, there's a lot more Microsoft released games than just Zoo Tycoon and FS...Dungeon Siege is a killer, Dungeon Siege 2 is nearing completion.Halo was a huge success on XBox, and Halo 2 seems to be going the same way.And as to people "taking a Zoo Tycoon seriously", maybe most people just want to have fun and not take a game seriously?I played the demo of Zoo Tycoon and had a good laugh doing so. Had I had money to buy the thing at the time I'd probably have done so."If MS drops FS, it would be as sinceless as HP shipping out brand new Pavilion PC's with out motherboards. Just doesnt make since."Another indication you've no idea about how FS stands in the market related to other Microsoft products.FS is basically a hobby group of Microsoft employees that became rather more economically successful than anyone had ever expected at the time.It's not core business, your computer will not stop functioning if it isn't there.