Failed to flatten...

[martinlest2 58]

I thought I would try to flatten the water around T. Kwong's VHHH. The airport is really nice, but sits on a large rectangle, so you get a 19' wall of water around large parts of the airport - very visible as you approach from the west.

 

I am assuming that this is not just my setup? I have had the scenery for a long time, so don't remember how I installed it, but I am pretty sure I did it according to the instructions. If others don't have this wall of water, please let me know!

 

I have the flatten line in the scenery.cfg file - though if I remove it, I don't see any difference! I tried creating a flatten with FST flatten - I think this still works in Windows 7 - though not 100% sure?? I get a bgl file OK but even if I put it in a folder at the top of my scenery library it has no effect, with or without the flatten line in the scenery.cfg file. The walls of seawater remain.

 

I tried ADE9x, but once I get the polygon and compile the airport, I get one bgl file - but I thought that I should get two, one called VHHH_ADE9.bgl and a flatten file, but no flatten. Is it possible to create flattens in FS9 with ADE9x? Maybe that only works in FSX (as far as I can see towards the end of the pdf manual).

 

Any other ideas as to how I could flatten the water around the airport edges? I have done this successfully at other airports, following the shorelines to create a flatten bgl. But I can't seem to make any difference to VHHH at all, even if I just create a simple rectangular flatten in the water (which is a t 19') using FSTFlatten.. nothing.

 

Thanks,

 

Martin

[mebull 27]

 

 

Is it possible to create flattens in FS9 with ADE9x?

 

Yes, but only at the same altitude as the airport altitude. Also the flatten polygon(s) created within ADE are compiled with the airport file so you don't see a second file. You might give SBuilder a try. It can create flattens and also sloped flattens which could work great to lower the shoreline to the water level and add the appropriate shoreline to match the area shores. for all of this to work it would need to be located as a higher priority than the scenery (VHHH) and the airport AFCAD - (Addon scenery/ scenery?) Such as FS9 root / Scenery / Generic / Scenery. If VHHH has any flattens in the scenery folder you may want to investigate by the process removing each one - one at a time to see exactly where they are working and whether any of them are involved in the water problem. That might lessen the amount of work you will need to do. I should mention that I just discovered that I have Thomas Kwong's VHHH version b installed and as soon as I am finished here I will check the scenery myself and report back, however in the scenery folder I found only one flatten and it has my initials on it. Thomas's file names are a bit cryptic so we'll see.

 

Personally I never liked adding flattens or excludes by way of text in the scenery.cfg, I prefer a bgl file that is easily moved or removed if necessary.

 

With FSTflatten you can check your created bgl by opening the SCA file (with notepad) or the text document created, again with notepad. Be sure to work creating your altitude points counter clockwise.

 

Regards,

Mel

[mebull 27]

Well, here is what I have found: I clearly see the raised water, to the airport elevation. Unfortunately the way the airport background image(s) is used (looks great) there is no easy or even moderately hard way of fixing the water altitude so that it fits nicely around the airport. Maybe others might have an idea and I will continue to think on it. The sloped flatten idea alone won't work, either you end up with sloped water again or the edges of the airport background suspended above the water. The only way I can think of is a polygon about forty to fifty feet in width with something like a rock texture applied that would surround the entire airport.Then a sloped flatten under that. Nineteen feet in altitude on the side that would butt up to the airport scenery and zero feet on the water side.You would then need to flatten all the remaining water that is at nineteen feet to zero feet. Someone and SBuilder can do that, but is it really worth the time and effort?

 

Regards,

Mel

[Dave Morgan 68]

Hi both.

 

 

Yes, but only at the same altitude as the airport altitude. Also the flatten polygon(s) created within ADE are compiled with the airport file so you don't see a second file.

 

 

The newest version of ADE9X allows you to make flattens at any elevation. You can make them anywhere - it's not necessary to have them encompassing the airport. You can also have several flattens associated with one airport, all at different elevations. You can even nest a series of different elevations within each other to make a (slightly stepped) sloping terrain, such as a run down to the shore (there's a Pantelleria airport available in the library I think that illustrates the technique).

 

They compile into another file. The AFD goes into something like ADE_MYNAME_ICAO.bgl, the flattens all into ADE_MYNAME_ICAO_TER.bgl. A third file will appear, I can't remember the name structure but it's similar) if you alter the airport elevation.

 

Bear in mind that if you delete the working *.ad2 file, you won't be able to edit the flattens as you can't open their file separately. You must work with the ad2 and not delete it until everything is finished.

 

I find this especially useful in two situations. The first is Martin's problem with the old wall-of-water thing. The other is for making farm strips on sloping ground. I can make a 10 foot long runway for the navigation and then have several parking spots at different heights up & down the sloping ground. Good for photoscenery where the grass is shorter along the runway, the farmhouse at the top of the hill and the hangar half way up. It's even possible to make smallish flattens so that stuff like EZ Scenery houses don't have floating corners.

 

 

Best regards,

Dave

[martinlest2 58]

Thanks both for the replies..

 

".. yes, but only at the same altitude as the airport altitude" - are you sure? I have made flattens before, as I say, that have solved this very problem - lowering walls of water to zero feet around airports at the coast,, but doing the same thing at VHHH has had no effect.

 

I have the latest version of ADE9 and used the polygon tool (the green 'shape' on the tool bar, to draw all around the airport. I set the elevation at zero and compile (after saving) - I get one bgl, VHHH_ADE9_MS.bgl. I have a folder in the scenry library above all other sceneries, for high priority bgl files; putting it there makes no difference to the water elevation. I had already looked at the file in its .sca form - looks fine, all parameters in the correct order.

 

Not sure by the way that I could create sloped ground in FS9, can I, even if I wanted? I thought that only worked in FSX?

 

l tried flattening the water just to the west of the airport using FSTFlatten - just a long rectangle. That didn't work either - VHHH seems immune toi everything I throw at it! If I disable the scenery altogether, the wall of water goes, so it is the VHHH installation that is causing it (just to check I don't have a rogue flatten elsewhere). Like you Mel, I also found a flatten bgl of my own making in the VHHH scenery folder - I also prefer a bgl file to an entry in the scenery.cfg file if I possibly can make it work. Whether my own bgl flatten ever worked, I can't now say. I am assuming it did as otherwise, why have I not noticed this water problem before? But if that's the case, why has it stopped being effective??

 

I have SBuilder and can try that, but have not really used it before so I don't know if that'll involve an afternoon's learning curve or not..

 

I'll try making a simple flatten rectangle with ADE9 just covering the area west of the runways (97L/07R), I haven't tried that yet. But I still think that this isn't working - I get just the one bgl file doing that. Are you sure only one is produces - the ADE9 pdf manual seems to say there should be two. In any case, the one produced has no effect, as I say. Am I doing it wrong? I set the altitude option to zero in the toolbar, select the polygon tool, draw the flatten anticlockwise and then save and compile: just one file is made (apart from the .ad2 of course when you save).

 

Thanks again,

 

Martin

[Dave Morgan 68]

Hi again.

 

Mel, are you thinking of the elevation correction rather than the flatten poly?

 

Martin, you will certainly have two BGL files if you had a green poly in the ad2. The second one is put automatically into fs9/scenery/world/scenery regardless of the folder you specify for the main bgl.

 

I move mine from there into a custom folder called ../elevation corrections/scenery/ and have it at the top of the FS9 layers list. Elevation corrections go in a layer as far down as I can put them (one up from the bottom I think) as AI work from the bottom up and choose the first elevaltion they find.

 

The elevation correction (I remember now) has a *_ALT.BGL name.

 

You can't create sloped ground but you can nest a lot of flatten polies inside each other (or overlapping) to make very fine terraces. They look a bit better than having a sea-cliff at the end of the runway!

 

Something like this tea-break doodle:

 

 

Cheers,

D

 

edit: If your flattens don't have any effect on the shape of the sea, try moving the layer containing your flatten right to the top of the list of scenery layers... Right down the bottom for AI (keeps them from landing underground) or right up the top to smother any other stuff you don't want to see. D.

[mebull 27]

 

 

Mel, are you thinking of the elevation correction rather than the flatten poly?

 

Brain fart alert! Brain fart alert!

 

No, Dave, I'm simply guilty of incorrect thinking. Thank you for setting things straight. I'm glad you caught me before Martin or anyone else was led to far off course! By the way I owe you another thank you. I was aware of multiple flattens and off airport flattens as long as they are within a certain range but I never looked into setting one to a different altitude than the airport.

 

Again, . . . . my apologies to you, Martin and everyone else for my blunder.

 

 

 

I have SBuilder and can try that, but have not really used it before so I don't know if that'll involve an afternoon's learning curve or not..

 

I would say moderate curve, not real easy - not real hard.

 

Best to all,

Mel

[martinlest2 58]

fs9/scenery/world/scenery was the first place I looked- no file; but I suspected I was doing something wrong and it was even more basic that I suspected. I haven't used ADE9x to make flatten files before and hadn't double-clicked the polygon so that the area is filled in  in green - I'd just left the black lines.

 

That said, now I have the two bgl files they are still making no difference, the sea still rises up to 19' all around the airport. I'll have another go, creating multiple files rather than just one around the whole airport... and report back!

[Dave Morgan 68]

Brain fart alert! Brain fart alert!

 

No, Dave, I'm simply guilty of incorrect thinking. Thank you for setting things straight. I'm glad you caught me before Martin or anyone else was led to far off course! By the way I owe you another thank you. I was aware of multiple flattens and off airport flattens as long as they are within a certain range but I never looked into setting one to a different altitude than the airport.

 

Again, . . . . my apologies to you, Martin and everyone else for my blunder.

 

 

 

 

I would say moderate curve, not real easy - not real hard.

 

Best to all,

Mel

 

That's quite alright. And you're keeping the very best company - I edited my multicoloured post three times before I finally got the right information into it...

 

... and I'm not sure it doesn't still have a mistake. I think the ALT file is created in the world scenery folder and the TER file is created in the same folder as the main bgl.

 

Blow this getting old business. I've reached the point now where I have not only to check my fly is done up before leaving home for work but have to make sure I am actually fully dressed.

[martinlest2 58]

No, none of the flattens I have made, even a basic rectangle across the water to the west of the airport, have any effect at all on the water. Maddening. Looks like i'll just have to turn a blind eye as I fly in..

[martinlest2 58]

Well, the problem is the file grd_airport.bgl. If you remove that the water is flat all the way to the airport perimeter. But there are no airport ground textures. I'll see if I can edit it to fix the problem; it may be possible..

[Dave Morgan 68]

Maddening indeed. And you're not alone in suffering the effects of those horrible 'mixed' bgl files. JustFlight's airports have huge excludes built in to them so no scenery objects at all for a mile or so around the airport. Worse, they all seem to be FS2002 vintage so I can't even decompile to attempt an edit...

 

If you do succeed, let us know how - maybe it will alleviate some of my frustration.

 

Cheers,

D

[martinlest2 58]

I am afraid not. When I decompiled the bgl there are 324 objects in it. I suppose some of the areas defined are too big and extend out past the airport into the sea. It would be a nightmare editing the whole thing by hand. I tried removing all the objects and then adding a few back at random - but it appears that any of the objects in the bgl file cause the problem, that's to say, remove all 324 objects, then add just one of them back in.. I only tried a random selection but they all made the water elevation problem appear.

 

I tried removing the default AP******.bgl and then using ADE9 to reduce VHHH to 1' elevation (would hardly show). Then edited the AFCAD similarly. But the mounds of water at 19' are still there, so I have put everything back to how it was. I don't see what more I can do. I'd be happy to have the whole airport at sea level, but I can't even get that to work..

 

Why doesn't a flatten in a higher priority folder take precedence over the grd_airport.bgl file and, well, flatten???

[Dave Morgan 68]

Hi.

 

I have no idea why a higher priority flatten doesn't do what it says on the tin - I thought that was something inherent to FS9. Setting the flattens aside, have you tried altering the airport elevation (making an _ALT file) with ADE? Along a similar vein, is there any AI at your VHHH, and does it land on the surface or sink through?

 

If there's nothing but airport background and elevation in grd_airport.bgl, I'm starting to think you may have to decide between background + bad elevation or good elevation & no background.

 

If the airport's AFD details are also in that file then you're probably stuck as I can't think of a way of altering airport elevation for a mixed bgl

 

Sorry, not offering much hope here am I?

D

[martinlest2 58]

Yes, I did try changing the elevation in ADE ("..then using ADE9 to reduce VHHH to 1' elevation (would hardly show)).  The airport looks awful without the ground, so I think it will have to stay as it is, with the walls of water. Aircraft (and AI too) sit fine at the gates and on the runways, so it's not a huge deal; just that it is frustrating not knowing why nothing seems to fix it.