>Circle to land is not a VFR traffic pattern, it's an instrument landing maneuver

A visual approach is an instrument approach according to the FAA.If you lose the runway during the circle you do the missed procedure of the instrument approach you are flying, an instrument procedure.It's all part of the approach you're flying.

Hi Peter,"The second is maintaining altitude and entering cloud hoping you will become visual again while flying a semi visual pattern."I think this is a mandatory missed approach. But I agree with the temptation to keep flying in order to hopefully regain visual contact. I think the issue in the original post is the FS ATC's way of only having several "active runways", although I had always thought that the "calm wind" active was the longest one with an ILS. Bruce.

>A visual approach is an instrument approach according to the>FAA.>>If you lose the runway during the circle you do the missed>procedure of the instrument approach you are flying, an>instrument procedure.>>It's all part of the approach you're flying.How can you fly the missed approach procedure for one runway when you are landing on a runway which is going off in a totally different direction and may itself not even have an instrument approach?I am not being pedantic here just interested as trying to get onto another runway missed approach procedure may even take you out of the confines of the limitations on the circling approach.The missed approach point is at the MDA for the circling approach on the instrument approach runway. Unless you are visual to make a visual circle and landing at that point you surely then have to miss and carry out the missed approach procedure?With your example chart if you came in on the N/E runway then turned onto the N/W runway (roughly ninety degrees off) ou would bust the 1.5 mile limit for starters if you missed heading N/WPeter

Taken from Instrument Flying handbook (FAA-H-8083-15)If visual reference is lost while circling-to-land from an instrument approach, execute the appropriate MAP. You should make an initial climbing turn toward the landing runway and then maneuver to intercept and fly the missed approach course.Taken from 2004 AIMIf visual reference is lost while circling-to-land from an instrument approach, the missed approach specified for that particular procedure must be followed (unless an alternate missedapproach procedure is specified by ATC). To become established on the prescribed missedapproach course, the pilot should make an initial climbing turn toward the landing runway and continue the turn until established on the missed approach course. Inasmuch as the circling maneuver may be accomplished in more than one direction, different patterns will be required to become established on the prescribed missed approach course, depending on the aircraft position at the time visual reference is lost. Adherence to the procedure will assure that an aircraft will remain within the circling and missed approach obstruction clearance areas.

BruceThis is a pedantic point. The missed approach point is at the MDA for the circling approach and still on the instrument approach.Taking the example chart shown above. You are flying an instrument approach on one runway and circling onto a non instrument approach second runway which is going off at ninety degrees to the instrument runway.Should you loose ground contact while approaching the second landing runway how could you possibly fly the missed approach off the instrument runway.You would be heading off 90 degrees away from the instrument approach runway out over the bay and way out of the circling distance minima.As far as I see it once you become visual at the MDA you elect to fly a visual landing.Even on a reciprical landing where you could miss after passing the MDA and could quite safely take up the missed approach off the instrument runway what happens if you go into cloud while turning base onto the reciprical runway or even worse on final onto the reciprical runway?Just a thought ;-)Peter

Peter,I posted text instructions responding to another post of yours in this thread (see my other post). Also this image is from the FAR/AIMDouglashttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/104083.jpg

Never liked circle to land approaches anyway all sounds a bit risky ;-) Thanks 4 thatPeter

Excellent Thread...Boy there is still alot to learn!Barry

Whenever going missed approach during a circle-to-land always turn toward the runway of landing and begin the published missed approach procedure...it wont take 25 miles to circle over the airfield in order to execute the missed and be within the MSA. Its assumed your climb out rate will provide you the obstacle clearance to safely transition, especially since you will already be above the MDA.The Circle-to-land procedure already provides 300ft obstacle clearance around the airport out to 1.7nm for class C approaches.

actually it was circle to land 28L.

CharlesThe controversy over the circle to land is whether this is or should be an IFR procedure or a VFR procedure?My arguement is that once off an established instrument approach and below the MDA for a circle to land turning towards the instrument runway is "NOT" an IFR procedure but a very hit or miss procedure.Should a circle to land below the MDA continue to be an IFR procedure then a proper missed approach would need to be drawn for each specific airfield off a specific circle to land runway.Just to say turn back towards the instrument runway regardless of altitude or terrain is not satisfactory and a cop out at best.Once leaving an established approach and in a situation of manouvering visually low level below the MDA then the remainder of the approach has to be a visual procedure and not a chop and change between VFR and IFR.There are plenty of airfields worldwide where there are obstacles or terrain where to go back IMC at 200-500 feet agl and to make a blind turn back to the instrument runway would be hazardous.A decision to miss should in my opinion be made while on the instrument approach and before starting the circle to land or before descending below the MDA.Only at that point can the pilot be sure that he has the touchdown point in view and that the touchdown point will remain in view to his landing.Any instrument approach, precision or non precision has an MDA where you do not descend below without being sure of remaining visual with the touchdown point. A circle to land which takes you off and away from that instrument approach and has no "specific to that airfield" missed approach procedure cannot claim to be an IFR procedure once below the MDA.Peter

In the PMDG forum i posted a guide on circling approaches called "A short guide to conducting circling approachs" topic #54669.The only thing which has changed is i know fly the 717.As for the circling part being a visual procedure that is strictly true if single pilot.However in a multicrew aircraft the pilot flying should be 100% focused on flying the gauges and being talked around by the pilot not flying.Pete.The cicle to land minima ensures you are at least 300' above the highest terrain in the circling area so if you remain at the circle to land minima and remain in the circling area you cannot hit anything.This is why you never leave the circling minima until you are in a position to commence a normal approach from that position in the circuit.You never duck immediately to the minimum cirling altitude as this is courting disaster.If you lose visual it doesn't matter as you are 300' above the highest terrain IN the circling area.You can safely turn back to the aid with no fear of hitting anythng as you will be climbing all the time.Circling is NOT a VFR procedure by any stretch.It is an IFR procedure done with minimum visability and cloud base requirements often below VFR criteria.If done properly it is hard work two crew and single pilot is reaches workload limits.AT all times it is an IFR procedure and never becomes VFR,ever despite the fact that you are poitioning the aircraft visually often in 1.8-2.5KM vis.Way below VFR.

>Circling is NOT a VFR procedure by any stretch.It is an IFR procedure done with minimum visability and cloud base requirements often below VFR criteria.

Does anybody know if the standard MS GPS will do a circle to land approach / procedure? What about the Flight One ATR FMC?Anybody?Barry