I really am struggling to understand what you want. I don't remember anyone asking this kind of question before.

 

Give a specific example of an approach you're struggling with and maybe someone can help but not LAX as I'm not familiar with those STARs. A European one is preferable.

I really am struggling to understand what you want. I don't remember anyone asking this kind of question before.

 

Give a specific example of an approach you're struggling with and maybe someone can help but not LAX as I'm not familiar with those STARs. A European one is preferable.

Sorry, but I don't know any European ones.  Let me see if I can explain better.  What I'm saying is for example, on some STARS (US), it will lead you to a waypoint were it will say to expect vectors to final approach course.  That must mean that ATC is going to radar vector you on the final approach course.  So what I'm saying, is that I don't think you can request an IAP approach on this kind of STAR, since it doesn't connect to any fix to where you can start the approach.  It has ATC radar vector you.  I hope that clears it up.

Okay, I understand you now. In that situation you could still request the IAP and fly a series of headings that will bring you to a 30° intercept path with the ILS.

 

Let's say your final waypoint in the STAR is due south of the airfield and you are required to land on 27R. When you reach that waypoint turn to a heading of 090° and fly a downwind leg that will take you to a position around 16DME from the airport.

 

On reaching that point turn left to 360°. The point you then need to turn left to 300° is down to judgement based on your speed. You may need to practice a few times. In the r/w pilots are always given a 30°intercept path to the ILS.

 

Once on a 30° intercept for the ILS choose APP on the autopilot (assuming it's available) and the aircraft will turn onto the localiser. Alternatively, hand fly the turn and descend on the glidepath.

 

Alternatively at 40DME from the airport fly the vectors given by the RC Controller. RC is effectively acting as a r/w controller.

 

I hope that clears things up.

ap1:

 

Please fill out your AVSIM hardware and simulator profiles. The links will appear under your avatar as in mine. This can be a quick link to refresh the memory of those trying to help as to how you are equipped..

 

An IAP will be granted after you accept the first vector and then request it. This will become available about 35 nm out if comms are prompt. Until then you will get vectors to enter the traffic pattern to intercept the assigned runway.

 

If you wish to navigate from 35 nm out on your own from the last STAR waypoint you enter look at the approach chart for the first waypoint and others and head toward it considering that as an IAF. Be aware of obstacles on the chart.

 

Now you can use the NOTAMS option which starts further out. RC becomes advisory so if you leave the vectors up you can deviate from them. You still need to cross waypoints in the plan sent to RC to get credit for them so you can progress.

 

As stated before, you need a good planner with terminal procedures so that in your nav display FMC or GPS you get visual guidance and situational awareness to navigate yourself to intercept the extended runway center line.

 

Situational awareness means you have a visual representation of where you are in relation to the airport and your intended landing runway. You also need to form your  intended self guided pattern to intercept final.

 

Let's say you are desire downwind entry (opposite the runway direction and parallel to it). Let's say your aircraft has an RMI with arrows pointing to a navaid on the field you can tune in just to get to the airport. As you see the airport as you come around the far end (say 30 nm out or so) you turn the aircraft to a parallel downwind when the RMI points to that navaid and agrees with the runway heading +/- 180 degrees. As you now see the airport on your GPS adjust to keep you parallel heading about two miles from the runway center. As you pass the airport center continue to about ten miles out and then turn left or right and then turn to a 45 degree intercept for final. Altitudes to use are on the IAP (in this case instrument approach chart). Without a navaid to tune an RMI to, just use the track feature of the GPS and visually offset yourself that two miles (or more for faster aircraft) left or right for the downwind adopting a heading opposite the landing direction.

 

Now a caution about FS runway navaids:

 

Default FS runway navaids have their backcourse "transmitters" enabled. If the same frequency is used for the localizer portion on both ends of the runway you may be picking up the incorrect localizer for the approach. It is only correct in this instance when you are within two degrees of runway centerline. Use the audio on a your nav radio or ident reading on your nav display to confirm you are using the correct localizer and glide slope if present.

 

As you work the pattern you may receive false indications on your VOR/LOC nav instrument so be aware of what pattern headings you should be using including your entry on to final.

 

As much as possible have the STAR and IAP chart available to you (I print them) for the possible runways that might be used. You can then use your GPS display in coordination with these charts and your aircraft heading indications to show you where you are and determine how you should proceed. I do this even when taking vectors to judge my speeds during the pattern execution to properly set flaps and speed to provide time for navigating turns, etc.

 

http://www.stoenworks.com/Aviation%20home%20page.html and scan down to the tutorials. Hal Steon is a former corporate pilot and visual and instrument certified flying instructor. A lot of what is here applies to all aircraft, not just non-airliners depicted here including departure and arrival procedures.

 

The idea is to look for what you need to be situational aware and "keep ahead of the aircraft" having your next navigation step ready in your mind.

 

For now, when practicing, turn off AI traffic to keep things simple.

Okay, I understand you now. In that situation you could still request the IAP and fly a series of headings that will bring you to a 30° intercept path with the ILS.

 

Let's say your final waypoint in the STAR is due south of the airfield and you are required to land on 27R. When you reach that waypoint turn to a heading of 090° and fly a downwind leg that will take you to a position around 16DME from the airport.

 

On reaching that point turn left to 360°. The point you then need to turn left to 300° is down to judgement based on your speed. You may need to practice a few times. In the r/w pilots are always given a 30°intercept path to the ILS.

 

Once on a 30° intercept for the ILS choose APP on the autopilot (assuming it's available) and the aircraft will turn onto the localiser. Alternatively, hand fly the turn and descend on the glidepath.

 

Alternatively at 40DME from the airport fly the vectors given by the RC Controller. RC is effectively acting as a r/w controller.

 

I hope that clears things up.

Yea, that does help, thanks.  So basically it's either you vector yourself and use IAP, or let RC do it.

 

 

Yea, that does help, thanks. So basically it's either you vector yourself and use IAP, or let RC do it.

 

You've got it. if you're inexperienced or lack relevant charts let RC vector you in.

You've got it. if you're inexperienced or lack relevant charts let RC vector you in.

Yea, sometimes I have difficulty vectoring myself in, usually on nearside approaches where it can be straight in.  I guess keep practicing.

ap1:

 

Please fill out your AVSIM hardware and simulator profiles. The links will appear under your avatar as in mine. This can be a quick link to refresh the memory of those trying to help as to how you are equipped..

 

An IAP will be granted after you accept the first vector and then request it. This will become available about 35 nm out if comms are prompt. Until then you will get vectors to enter the traffic pattern to intercept the assigned runway.

 

If you wish to navigate from 35 nm out on your own from the last STAR waypoint you enter look at the approach chart for the first waypoint and others and head toward it considering that as an IAF. Be aware of obstacles on the chart.

 

Now you can use the NOTAMS option which starts further out. RC becomes advisory so if you leave the vectors up you can deviate from them. You still need to cross waypoints in the plan sent to RC to get credit for them so you can progress.

 

As stated before, you need a good planner with terminal procedures so that in your nav display FMC or GPS you get visual guidance and situational awareness to navigate yourself to intercept the extended runway center line.

 

Situational awareness means you have a visual representation of where you are in relation to the airport and your intended landing runway. You also need to form your  intended self guided pattern to intercept final.

 

Let's say you are desire downwind entry (opposite the runway direction and parallel to it). Let's say your aircraft has an RMI with arrows pointing to a navaid on the field you can tune in just to get to the airport. As you see the airport as you come around the far end (say 30 nm out or so) you turn the aircraft to a parallel downwind when the RMI points to that navaid and agrees with the runway heading +/- 180 degrees. As you now see the airport on your GPS adjust to keep you parallel heading about two miles from the runway center. As you pass the airport center continue to about ten miles out and then turn left or right and then turn to a 45 degree intercept for final. Altitudes to use are on the IAP (in this case instrument approach chart). Without a navaid to tune an RMI to, just use the track feature of the GPS and visually offset yourself that two miles (or more for faster aircraft) left or right for the downwind adopting a heading opposite the landing direction.

 

Now a caution about FS runway navaids:

 

Default FS runway navaids have their backcourse "transmitters" enabled. If the same frequency is used for the localizer portion on both ends of the runway you may be picking up the incorrect localizer for the approach. It is only correct in this instance when you are within two degrees of runway centerline. Use the audio on a your nav radio or ident reading on your nav display to confirm you are using the correct localizer and glide slope if present.

 

As you work the pattern you may receive false indications on your VOR/LOC nav instrument so be aware of what pattern headings you should be using including your entry on to final.

 

As much as possible have the STAR and IAP chart available to you (I print them) for the possible runways that might be used. You can then use your GPS display in coordination with these charts and your aircraft heading indications to show you where you are and determine how you should proceed. I do this even when taking vectors to judge my speeds during the pattern execution to properly set flaps and speed to provide time for navigating turns, etc.

 

http://www.stoenworks.com/Aviation%20home%20page.html and scan down to the tutorials. Hal Steon is a former corporate pilot and visual and instrument certified flying instructor. A lot of what is here applies to all aircraft, not just non-airliners depicted here including departure and arrival procedures.

 

The idea is to look for what you need to be situational aware and "keep ahead of the aircraft" having your next navigation step ready in your mind.

 

For now, when practicing, turn off AI traffic to keep things simple.

Thanks for the explanation.  What I do is load vectors on the GPS and gives a line for final.  So I can vector myself to it.  Would that be good?  If there are no instrument procedures for the runway, then I'm out of luck.  

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. What I do is load vectors on the GPS and gives a line for final. So I can vector myself to it. Would that be good? If there are no instrument procedures for the runway, then I'm out of luck.

 

You know the runway heading.  The track reading on the GPS will read the runway heading if you are on the center line so turn to the runway heading just before the track indicator states it. Be sure to display a smaller range on the GPS (zoom in) so the runways are depicted especially where parallel runways exist.

You know the runway heading.  The track reading on the GPS will read the runway heading if you are on the center line so turn to the runway heading just before the track indicator states it. Be sure to display a smaller range on the GPS (zoom in) so the runways are depicted especially where parallel runways exist..

OK thanks, I'll try that.