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Is WAAS implemented? (Part II)

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Is WAAS implemented?


  No. The enhancement will be provided in a future release cycle at no cost.


(According to the website)



(disclaimer: AVSIM is wreaking havoc with my display fonts. I don't know if this will be in bold, italic, different point sizes, etc...)


Hello Ed,


Ok, so the good news is that WAAS seems to have been implemented now.


Couldn't find much additional info. I also have questions about commercial use.


1) LNAV/VNAV/LPV: is this implemented into 530/430 functionality / navigation now?  (i know you wrote that the database contains LPV data.)


2) Commercial use: you said here:


"First and foremost we are a company that makes avionics software for training in the real world. Neither Navigraph nor NavDataPro can be legally licensed/used in a training environment. But that's just the tip of the iceberg."


However, in your disclaimer, you say:

"This software is provided purely for entertainment purposes and is not suitable for or intended to be used for real-world flight training or flight planning.   This version of the software is sold strictly for your personal, private, non-commercial use only.  Other uses of this version of the software are strictly prohibited."


Is the 530/430 available for commercial use? If so, how much is a commercial license for the 530/430?


3) Why drastically reduce the value of the software through the limitations imposed by your source of nav data? I see that the update costs for a year are almost $1000. Really?


Yearly data for the actual real-world avionics is only $500. It seems like at this pricing, you are going to miss a lot of opportunities, especially with the profound "serious hobbyist/private pilot" cost.  (I see that you note that you share some employees with RealNav. Perhaps this is a factor?)


To make sure I'm understanding this, a home user wishing to get all cycles (commercial level subscription II) will be paying nearly $1000 per year?


Also, I gather from jumping site-to-site that the data you require for home use is actually only updated in the form of a noncommercial release 4x per year, not in 13 cycles:


(From RealNav)

Subscription Types

All subscriptions are annual.  The number of updates per subscription varies based on the type of subscription/license.

Professional License:

28-day AIRAC Cycles

Home-Use License:

Quarterly Updates

(4 Updates Annually)


TWO commercial level updates exist, the 4x per year version being almost $500. 


As a counterpoint, SimAvio (X-Plane) utilizes AIRAC data and a 13 updates costs $78.


Therefore, whether or not it's a restriction placed on you by RealNav, it makes real-world applicability, especially if one can "navigate" to acceptable commercial use, tentative.


Perhaps I'm missing something here? Please advise.




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Yes, WAAS is implemented. I'm uncertain what additional info is needed regarding WAAS.


All GPS vertical guidance approaches are now functional in the 430/530. Basic VNAV (not a function of data or approaches), however, is not.


Purchasing from the Mindstar Aviation website is for private home use only and is not licensed for commercial use. Any company desiring to utilize our product(s) in a commercial training environment needs to contact us via email with information regarding their intent. We do not normally sell a commercial license to a single individual for their own use.


Your statement regarding 'reduce the value'. That statement is completely inaccurate. First and foremost... the database we use is legal for a training environment. No other available data system is. None. That's one reason for a higher cost on the commercial side. Second, the database we use has quite a bit more rather important information contained within it than any other available data.


The home use cost is $39.95 per year and provides for 4 quarterly updates to the home user. It is not $1000. The home user can not legally obtain commercial subscriptions. These are legal restrictions we are required to abide by.

Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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Thanks for the reply.


Regarding the idea of value - perhaps that's the wrong description - but I am speaking specifically to training value. A truncated data set reduces training value.


I don't know enough about how many data versions may be available, but if RealNav is the only approved data source, it looks like Elite must be using it in their FAA-Approved PC-ATDs and up. That said, their site is not up to date, either.

Additionally, FTS' FAA-Approved systems seem, on the surface, to be using something other than RealNav.

There is also a system in place to be used with the commercial version of X-Plane that allows the simulator to drive a real-world head unit, so, arguably, there's another - the actual Garmin data.


- - - 


In addition to using my home sims during my instrument training, I am setting up a non-loggable simulator for our flight school - therefore the questions regarding commercial use.


$39 / 4 cycles is absolutely reasonable for hobbyists.


The commercial license of RealNav, i.e. the one that follows a 13 cycle release, is $995 and is arguably the only truly acceptable format for people to whom current, real-world procedures are critical, whether they are training at home or at a flight school. 





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There is no 'truncated data set'. There is simply a choice on how often one desires to update as a commercial licensee. That particular thing was at the request of flight schools.


I can not speak for Elite, nor FTS... and neither can you.


However, from Elite: to purchase current virtual WAAS GPS Nav Data is between $295 and $395 based on whether it's U.S. Only or World Wide. That's a single update.


Regarding FTS... I believe they're affiliated with SimAVIO and SimAVIO's data is U.S. Only.


So, let's recap...


Elite is between $295 and $395 based on whether you want U.S. Only or World-wide... and it is a one-time update.


FTS uses SimAVIO which is a 1-year subscription for $78... but is U.S. Only.


RealNav is $1000 for 13 cycles and is World-wide.


You have no idea how accurate/inaccurate any of their data is when compared to the real world, and neither do I. I'll simply state that ours is far more comprehensive than what's in any current entertainment versions and I suspect contains more than either Elite's or SimAVIO's.

Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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Hi Ed,


You know, I'd bet that most training that takes place in the US, when reinforced with moderated simulation, is echoed by that simulated training taking place in the same locations as the real-world flight training.


Anyway, no, I don't speak for Elite, FTS, or Laminar - I just discuss what I've found on their sites. 


I do assume that the vast majority of your users are hobbyists, and that the need for a more expensive/current database is not critical. The cost of your software plus updates for that type of use is very good.


Good to know the WAAS approaches are now implemented. Do you happen to have a feature/use summary? I looked on your site but could not find anything.


Thanks again,


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Well... as I've already stated... Elite is far more expensive than we are and I suspect that SimAVIO is creating some kind of database from the FAA data disks. I say that because it's U.S. Only.


The majority of our 430/530 users are commercial flight training facilities, not home users.


As for feature list, no we don't have one.

Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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Thanks for your reply. This is intended to be a constructive discussion.


Only so much can be gained by commoditizing. I can only assume that either your commercial business is strong enough to warrant this apparent level of disinterest in noncommercial users, forum support notwithstanding; or that, perhaps, you have very limited resources? Hopefully, the essential disappearance of RXP and/or lack of competition is not a factor in your consideration of noncommercial customers.


I am, honestly, trying to feel comfortable about a purchase, and moving on from RXP. I want to support your (noncommercial) efforts and the cost is not a factor. I am 100% certain you do not need my business, nor that of any specific individual. (Heck, at this point, I doubt you want me as a customer. Tough, I might buy it anyway.)

Just to make sure I'm clear on this:

- No features list

- No discussion of development/upcoming features

- No comparison to real-world counterpart/operation

- No current info update on website (e.g. WAAS)
- No user manual / operation guide

- No guarantee of operational performance
- No demo
- No refund policy

Is this accurate?


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I see nothing constructive about this discussion, to be honest.


If you want the 430/530 combo, purchase it. If you don't, don't purchase it.


We offered these up to the home user because someone suggested it would be welcome. It is a far better price-point than any other comparable product, which should also be welcome.


This discussion is now closed.

Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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This topic is now closed to further replies.
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