New VFR Netherlands photoreal scenery is out...

[Guest Javis]

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[Guest Javis]

Thanks Marcel, this is possibly a better way then unchecking the default Western Europe all together. I use FSNavDBC to check/uncheck scenery, works very nice too.Jan

[JimmiG 244]

The LWM and vector roads/rivers are two completely different things. Even if the installer disables the land-water mask (HL* and HP* BGL files), the trenches from streams and to a lesser degree, the flattens from roads, will be visible.I simply keep one copy of the terrain.cfg with all offsets "commented out" (by adding two slashes // before each offset= line in the file, FS will ignore it) and one normal terrain.cfg. Since those cutouts appear in all photoreal sceneries such as Megascenery, England and Wales etc. I can easily turn off the offsets with a simple .bat file.BTW the detailed areas of FranceVFR use a different technique. Instead of normal scenery textures, which are limited to 4.8m/pixel resolution, it uses actual 3D-objects for the "terrain". It works for small areas but the development time and memory usage would be way too high for large-scale sceneries. One advantage with this technique is that blurring doesn't occour since the textures aren't loaded in "stages" and if it can't keep up, the sim pauses (read: stutters) until all textures load. Blurring happens with all "normal" photographic sceneries, unless the system is properly optimized and configured.

[Guest Javis]

>(TERRAIN)>TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=0.000000>TERRAIN_MIN_DEM_AREA=10.000000>TERRAIN_MAX_DEM_AREA=100.000000>TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=19>TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8>TERRAIN_AUTOGEN_DENSITY=0>TERRAIN_USE_GRADIENT_MAP=1>TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=0>TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=7.500000>TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=4.5>TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=0>>Give these settings a try; no mesh (this is holland, duh) and>faster loading due to no extended textures or levels; no need>at 3000 feet.>>paul @ ehggBedankt Paul, but i love my Terrain settings, don't want to go mess about with them every time i'll fly Holland. Obviously i need my mesh, autogen and vertex level at 21 ! ( Horizon said so itself too ;-) ) But thanks for the suggestion anyway.Jan

[Guest Andy Parton]

>> "The LWM and vector roads/rivers are two completely different things. Even if the installer disables the land-water mask (HL* and HP* BGL files), the trenches from streams and to a lesser degree, the flattens from roads, will be visible.I simply keep one copy of the terrain.cfg with all offsets "commented out" (by adding two slashes // before each offset= line in the file, FS will ignore it) and one normal terrain.cfg. Since those cutouts appear in all photoreal sceneries such as Megascenery, England and Wales etc. I can easily turn off the offsets with a simple .bat file.BTW the detailed areas of FranceVFR use a different technique. Instead of normal scenery textures, which are limited to 4.8m/pixel resolution, it uses actual 3D-objects for the "terrain". It works for small areas but the development time and memory usage would be way too high for large-scale sceneries. One advantage with this technique is that blurring doesn't occour since the textures aren't loaded in "stages" and if it can't keep up, the sim pauses (read: stutters) until all textures load. Blurring happens with all "normal" photographic sceneries, unless the system is properly optimized and configured." <

[Guest Andy Parton]

Well, certainly in your first screenshot, the scenery is at least 1 mip map down from full resolution, and that shouldn't be the case at the altitude it looks like your at (3000 ft+ ?). So I think it's blurries, which is well discussed elsewhere so I'm not going to delve into it here. :-)And with that megascenery shot, the contrast of the textures is higher, which is entirely different from having higher res textures. In fact, they look a lot worse to me than VFR Netherlands (I have megascenery northern california) since despite the high contrast, compression artifacts appear in the megascenery textures more than any other photo scenery I have (and I've got a few...).As mentioned in the other post by JimmiG, FranceVFR cannot be compared to ordinary photo scenery, becuase it isn't ordinary photo scenery - it's based upon some 'flat' textured polys layed on the surface, which can use higer res textures. Must compare apples with apples. :-)

[Guest Javis]

Andy,>Well, certainly in your first screenshot, the scenery is at>least 1 mip map down from full resolution, and that shouldn't>be the case at the altitude it looks like your at (3000 ft+>?)Well, that's what i mean, you'd *think* you're looking at a 1 mip map down texture version but you aren't.... I've been hanging there in Slew mode for a couple minutes,nope that's full res we see here. It wouldn't be fair to the producer to post a screenshot of their scenery if it's not the full res texture version that's in view, would it. Certainly not if one is whining about its quality.. I always try out a new photoreal scenery with a really slow aircraft like a Tiger Moth or something to make sure i get to see the high res textures. I just tried the Netherlands scenery with something faster, like 180 knots at about 4000 feet from within the VC, not changing views, keep the view at around 2/3 o'clock. Every now and then it was necessary to hit the Y key and wait a couple seconds for the high res texture to turn up so i *do* know what a 1 mip map down looks like, and it's not pretty!(-: This of course is very common for photoreal scenery so i am certainly not complaining about that.In fact i'm quite happy about how fast the high res version turns up.What might give you the idea of looking at a 1 mip map down is the fact that this shot is taking while the aircraft's left wing is tilted down so you get to see a lot of the foreground.Btw, Andy, you can already see about the quality of the textures at Horizon's own site with the screenshots they've put up there. So i was not totally surprised. It's only that i like to fly a little lower then 5000 feet, deffinately the altitude that they's shot their screenshots with, if not higher. >And with that megascenery shot, the contrast of the textures>is higher, which is entirely different from having higher res>textures. In fact, they look a lot worse to me than VFR>Netherlands (I have megascenery northern california) since>despite the high contrast, compression artifacts appear in the>megascenery textures more than any other photo scenery I have>(and I've got a few...).I know what you mean. Entirely different countryside of course. I think that the fields and meadows in the Netherlands scenery *do* look nice it's 'just' the look of the cities,villages and roads which i hoped would've look better. >As mentioned in the other post by JimmiG, FranceVFR cannot be>compared to ordinary photo scenery, becuase it isn't ordinary>photo scenery - it's based upon some 'flat' textured polys>layed on the surface, which can use higer res textures. Must>compare apples with apples. :-)Sure, and that's why i was *not* comparing that amazing looking Quiberon scenery with the Netherlands scenery with that shot, merely countering your statement that it is my system and setup that is causing the rather low texture quality of the Netherlands scenery. Read it back please. Btw, my system is Athlon64 3400+ HT,Geforce 6800 Ultra,1024 MB DDR400, 6.1 Audigy2, 100GB and 200GB 7200 HD's and NEC FE1250+ 22" monitor. Not too bad,huh.. :+Jan

[Guest Andy Parton]

Well, at the end of the day it all depends on what the quality of the source photos horizon had to make the scenery. Maybe it was not as good quality as the England scenery, who knows.All I can say is that it looks as good on my system as any of the other photo sceneries I have, so I'm not disappointed at all. One thing that might be giving the impression of reduced resolution is the contrast of the textures and also the amount of water in the textures. It seems to me that every river, dyke, stream, pond and puddle has been cut into the scenery to give the water reflective effects, which when you consider the amount of inland water in the Netherlands must have been a #### of a job.Another thing I did last night was to open some textures in imagetool and compare them with both England VFR and San Francisco VFR from Horizon/Visual Flight - and again, I can see no real difference in quality. All at 4.8m/pix and all have the same quality mip maps built in.So in a nutshell, I'm very happy with the Netherlands. Your "review" seems to have put some people off, but I'd just like to say that I think its worth every penny (or dollar or euro!) and certainly far far better than any other photo scenery of the Netherlands.....However these things are just opinions and everyone should decide for themselves. Perhaps Horizon should make a demo version so people can try it out.Kind Regards

[virtualstuff 758]

Would you be so kind to share some picturs and not from a high angle of the aircraft but with normal zoom?Thanks,Andre Folkers

[Guest Pabra]

Hi Jan, no need to mess at all! My tip; this is in the fs9.cfg; Copy and paste the text next to the (terrain) text and remove one of the brackets of the original terrain text. If you have the fs9.cfg in the taskbar (you can drag it there) each time you have a different flight setting just open it with notepad and change it (the bracket) accordingly. Kind of a switch, right? ps; have you got the image setting at quality or performance? quality makes all the difference..Paul@ehgg

[boshar 6]

>>Yep, saw it. However no elev for the dunes along the coast,>don't think that's a problem though. My fav island is Vlieland>and while Texel looks pretty good Vlieland looks awfull>'blocky'. Don't know why. >Good that you mention this Jan. I thought it was due to the settings on my computer. I'm now sure that the Vlieland problem is caused by the 'Vliehorst' being there. Its marked as military terrain (its a bombing gunning range for the airforce). And the publisher has deliberately altered the image. I also made a testflight around Rotterdam and observed that they did the same thing to the location of the Van Genth kazerne (a Royal Netherlands marines Base).The Vlieland job nearly removes the whole island for what? The gun range tower and some old target vehicles. A bit to thorough if you ask me. If I recall correctly both military objects are still free to look at using www.vanuitdelucht.nlThe biggest problem I have with this scenerey is the way it handles bridges that span water. The problem is that there are no bridges. Waterways break up the roads even at minor crossings. As as simmer without any real flying experience I mainly use this product to follow the roads. The 'water everywhere' LWM and scenery (if you switch off the LWM the texture stil has water painted over the road that has to be on the picture) breaks up all the roads.

[Guest Javis]

>Would you be so kind to share some picturs and not from a>high angle of the aircraft but with normal zoom?Not sure if this is the appropriate forum to do that,Andre, so i put a few up at screenshot forum here : http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=205785&page=Normal VC zoom 75.More details about the screenshot conditions included. cheers,Jan

[Guest Javis]

>Good that you mention this Jan. I thought it was due to the>settings on my computer. I'm now sure that the Vlieland>problem is caused by the 'Vliehorst' being there.>Thanks Boshar, that must be it ! There's a range at Terschelling too, a spot near the harbor is blurred out but not the range itself... :-roll If you ask politely they'll take you up at the tower and you can see the F-16's, A-10's and Tornado's do their thing up close. Pretty exiting ! :-cool>The Vlieland job nearly removes the whole island for what? The>gun range tower and some old target vehicles. A bit to>thorough if you ask me. If I recall correctly both military>objects are still free to look at using www.vanuitdelucht.nlYep, typical dutch spruitjes politics :+ Glad they didn't treat Terschelling like that although Vlieland is my fav island. Would've loved to spot my tent ! :-) Jan

[Guest Javis]

>It seems to me that every river,>dyke, stream, pond and puddle has been cut into the scenery to>give the water reflective effects, which when you consider the>amount of inland water in the Netherlands must have been a>#### of a job.Absolutely! And a great job they did on that too!>Another thing I did last night was to open some textures in>imagetool and compare them with both England VFR and San>Francisco VFR from Horizon/Visual Flight - and again, I can>see no real difference in quality. All at 4.8m/pix and all>have the same quality mip maps built in.I did the same but i got weary of searching for towns/cities textures because those are the textures i'm dissapointed with. AFter seeing a truckload of meadows and fields textures, which all do look nice indeed, i gave up. I'll get used to the town textures too,i'm sure.I am equally dissapointed with the Flightzone Paris base scenery for the same reason.Surrounding meadows,fields and small villages look nice but the city itself looks terrible imho. I am still at awe with the Flightzone Rhode Island scenery but i'm sure it must be the custom autogen which makes it look so good overall.>Your "review" seems to have put some people off,Well, someone asked if somebody could post a first opinion and that's what i did. I didn't feel like i had to start a commercial campaign here,i believe that's not allowed here neither.. :-) I wish i could've trumpet forth the praises but my auntie's wollen jersey got in the way. You might also want to take into account that i have been VERY much anticipating the release of this particular scenery. Doing so there's always a risk of putting up ones expectations too high.Anyway, Andy, like i said before, i am very thankfull to Horizon for giving me the opporunity to virtually explore my own country from the air.In my, what, 20 years of being a dedicated FS pilot i have of course never had that opportunity and i'm absolutely loving it ! Tell you what, i'll take my auntie's wollen jersey with me next time and throw it out the cockpit, how's that. :-cool Btw, aren't you waiting for Visual Flight to release Scotland ? ( if the're working on that in the first place of course ) I am !! cheers,Jan

[Guest Javis]

Ok,thanks,Paul. Yes i have my fs9.cfg on the desktop.I'll give it a go!> ps; have you got the image setting at quality or performance?>quality makes all the difference..Deffinately quality ! Quite pleased with how England&Wales VFR, France VFR (not Paris!) and Mega Scenery textures look. Although Mega Sceneries do support autogen which makes a lot of difference of course particularly to the look of towns/cities. Additional autogen for England&Wales VFR is in the works by dedicated fans,i'm sure that'll be the case for the Netherlands too (whishfull thinking).If i wasn't all booked up with FS aircraft design already i'd loved to have a go myself. :-)cheers,Jan