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Teejay

Newbie needing help on Stars into Manchester (EGCC).

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Can anyone point me in the right direction to find which part of the PMDG manuals will teach me how to set up the approach routes for an automated landing?  I followed the Tutorial 1 from Gatwick to Amsterdam, which used a Transition leg from a waypoint on the route into Schiphol.  I then flew the aircraft out of Manchester to Amsterdam using the same approach into Schiphol. That worked fine. I now want to return to Manchester, and I can program the FMC out of Schiphol runway 6 via a BERG2R SID and along the airways to any of the waypoints to the north east of Manchester. I can also get to Rosun holding point via a ROSUN1G star for example. But I really cannot figure out how to get from any of these points down to runway 23R (preferably). There are some transitions, but whichever I select I end up with lots of discontinuity points in the legs.

 

If anyone can answer this directly that would be great, but I imagine it must all be explained somewhere in the manuals, but I don't even know where to start looking.

 

Thank you.

 

Trevor Simpson 

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Here is the description of the STAR.

 

Arrival via UL975 east to LIBSO, continue on track 279° to GOLES. At GOLES turn right onto FL200 by GOLES POL VOR R105 to POL VOR. At POL VOR turn left onto POL VOR R269 to BURNI. At BURNI turn right to intercept MCT VOR R353 to ROSUN.

 

 

So in your route you enter the STAR (ROSUN1G).   After the last waypoint ROSUN you will be getting vectors to intercept the ILS for 23R.  So as you fly and reach ROSUN, descend to 3500 ft per the ILS chart (slow down to 190 knots).  Intercept at a 30 degree angle with LOC pressed and once established press APP.  If you have entered the ILS frequency in NAV 1 and 2 along with the correct course of 233 degrees you should autoland.  Make sure you slow down on the ILS down to VREF plus 5 knots.

 

By the way, looking at the chart my guess is in the real world the aircraft are vectored off of the arrival STAR before POL if spacing is available.

 

Hope this helps.

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Thanks for your prompt reply Mark. I am a complete beginner here, so I am presuming that the A/P won't work at all unless I enter a complete route into the FMC before I take off from AMS. Your suggestion seems to indicate that I could just program the route to Rosun and then fly vectors onto the ILS. Or do I need to somehow indicate in the FMC that I will follow vectors from Rosun to the ILS? I am probably demonstrating my complete ignorance now, which is why I think I need to sit down and study the manuals, if only I could find the appropriate section without trawling through the whole lot.

 

Interesting that you say the aircraft are probably vectored off the arrival STAR before POL. I live just a few miles south of the extended runway centre line, and almost everything from the east seems to come in directly from the east without first going to POL.

 

Also, the SID to DESIG has a restriction of 5000ft at DESIG, but everything I see going out that way is already at 10000ft or more abeam my house. Maybe the restriction actually exists but 90% of the time ATC clears them to a higher level.

 

I have lots to learn, but that's part of the enjoyment.

 

Trevor Simpson 

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Thanks for your prompt reply Mark. I am a complete beginner here, so I am presuming that the A/P won't work at all unless I enter a complete route into the FMC before I take off from AMS. Your suggestion seems to indicate that I could just program the route to Rosun and then fly vectors onto the ILS. Or do I need to somehow indicate in the FMC that I will follow vectors from Rosun to the ILS? I am probably demonstrating my complete ignorance now, which is why I think I need to sit down and study the manuals, if only I could find the appropriate section without trawling through the whole lot.

 

Interesting that you say the aircraft are probably vectored off the arrival STAR before POL. I live just a few miles south of the extended runway centre line, and almost everything from the east seems to come in directly from the east without first going to POL.

 

Also, the SID to DESIG has a restriction of 5000ft at DESIG, but everything I see going out that way is already at 10000ft or more abeam my house. Maybe the restriction actually exists but 90% of the time ATC clears them to a higher level.

 

I have lots to learn, but that's part of the enjoyment.

 

Trevor Simpson 

 

Generally you enter the complete route in advance with the understanding that ATC may change it up on you during your descent.  Runway assignment may only come when you are below 10,000ft.

 

Remember the Autopilot can fly in two modes.....following the FMC or you as pilot directing the Autopilot to fly heading, altitude, speed, vertical speed.  So in this case the A/P will fly the plane in LNAV and VNAV to ROSUN.  Passing ROSUN you will press HDG and fly the aircraft on the ATC assigned heading.  If there is no ATC in your flightsim session you would probably fly a heading of something like 150 degrees and then when close to the ILS turn right heading 240 or 250 to intercept.

 

Below 10,000ft use FLCH (Flich) mode when flying vectors and use your speed to descend.  FLCH mode will give the aircraft the best rate of climb or descent for a given speed in the speed window.  You should practice using it changing the speeds and seeing how the aircraft reacts.....don't be afraid to use the speed brakes to increase the rate of descent as needed.

 

 

Hope this helps.

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Thanks Mark and thank you David for the chart. It's becoming clearer now. I can see that in any case ATC may change your set plan and you then have to switch away from the FMC route. But I am still unsure what I have to enter into the FMC in the first place for the section from ROSUN to the runway, so that I have a complete route at the outset in order that the aircraft will fly LNAV and VNAV from Amsterdam at least until ROSUN. 

 

Trevor Simpson

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You don't need to enter anything in the FMC after Rosun to allow the A/P to fly to Rosun with LNAV/VNAV engaged. As long as you have a continuous route up to Rosun, the A/P will fly up to Rosun.

 

If you wish, you can select the landing runway and final approach on ground before takeoff (e.g; ILS 23R). As the final approach ILS 23R doesn't start at Rosun, you will see a discontinuity in the leg page between Rosun and the IF but it is not an issue at all for the A/P. It won't prevent it from flying to Rosun.

 

As said above, once you reach Rosun, just select HDG SEL and give heading to the A/P through the heading box on the MCP.

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Thank you Romain.

 

Yes, that's what I really wanted to know. 

 

I shall try it out now.

 

Trevor Simpson

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