I am trying to understand why people always aim for high frame rate (40..50..60 etc) for visuals? Isn't it the motion picture frame rate is around 24fps? then for FS why do we need higher numbers than that?thankssrini

This has been explored ad infinitum many many times. There are significant differences between movies and computer games. We don't "need" higher than 24fps in FS, but if we can get higher than 24fps the sim is definitely more enjoyable. Actually, if you asked Spielberg or Cameron or any other motion picture director if they'd like film to run at 30 or more fps I bet they'd say "you bet." 24fps isn't some magic number that represents the "best, most ideal" framerate for film. It's actually closer to the minimum framerate needed to give a smooth sense of motion - after-all, the film industry is built on profit and every foot of film costs dollars.

> We don't "need" higher than 24fps in FS, but if we can get>higher than 24fps the sim is definitely more enjoyable. In what way do frame rates above say, 25 make the sim more enjoyable? Isn't fluidity important too? I've had relatively low frames but high fluidity and would rather trade some frames for increased fluidity. In my experience there's nothing like micro-stuttering (which I see as a failure in fluidity rather than a frame rate issue) for spoiling the sense of motion and the simulation of movement.

>I am trying to understand why people always aim for high>frame rate (40..50..60 etc) for visuals? >>Isn't it the motion picture frame rate is around 24fps? then>for FS why do we need higher numbers than that?>>thanks>sriniIn my opinion, it's the ego's... :-)Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

I work in the high end Video Industry as a Trainer, and have also taught many training seminars in the new Digital Cinema Technology which will probaby eventually replace film projectors in movie theaters. In order to perceive smooth motion a minimum frame rate of about 18 FPS is usally enough for most people. The movie industry has used 24 FPS for many, many years, an many in that industry are reluctant to use a faster frame rate, for a couple of reasons. For one, if you are using film, going from 24FPS to 30 FPS for instance, requires much more film to shoot the same movie, which is expensive. The Cinema Industry purists also like the "look" of 24FPS and don't feel it should be changed, even though changing to 30 FPS would be easy if using a Digital Camera. Using 24 FPS rather than 30FPS , does create problems, one of which is converting a movie from 24 to 30FPS so that it can be viewed on a DVD in NTSC3.58 which is the US standard. With the new Digital Cinema techonlogy, it is very simple to show movies in either 24FPS or 30FPS. Very fast motion would probably look a bit better in 30FPS, but film is different than frames on your monitor generated by a PC. So the jury is still out on whether the current 24 FPS will be used in the future , or if everything goes digital, it will be changed to 30FPS Anyway, frame rates higher than 24-30, would be totally acceptable for the average person, and after looking a video projectors all day long at work worth sometimes many tens of thousands of dollars, when I run FS9 on my home PC , my FPS are locked to 25.

Of course fluidity is important. What I'm saying is that the sim is definitely more smooth at 30-40 stutter-free fps than it is at 20-24 stutter-free fps. I know I can tell the difference and it certainly isn't "ego." It's as much a feel thing as it is a visual thing. At 60fps (the ideal for gaming afaic) games feel absolutely butter smooth and responsive but at 20fps they start to feel laggy. It's not nearly as pronounced in MSFS as it is in say a racing sim like NR2003 or a FPS like Quake where things are happening much more quickly but it's still there.

I agree, i play a lot of first person shooters and at least 60 fps is required there, in MSFS i can live with anything over 15 fps.OHN

Egos? Please :-rollThe main reason is for headroom for addons and intense situations. The sim has way to many variables to stay at one framerate, detailed scenery, aircraft and weather will all impact your FPS. If you could keep it at 24 fps ALL THE TIME, IN EVERY CONDITION, then no one on here would be complaining, but that isn't the case. The higher the framerates you get, the more leeway you have for those FPS draining times.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

Well said Michael. I believe that knowing it is possible to have, say 40 fps helps a lot when looking around at some of the payware and freeware that can be so FPS hungry. Apart from scenery such as Mega USA to help with VFR I tend to stay away from scenery simply because I personally don't have a need. However if I want to buy the upcoming 737 from PIC it's good to know that I can still use it and know that I will maintain a decent rate of FPS. I can quite happily live with around 20 though. I remember the giddy heights of about 50 at the end of FS8 for only a few months before my PC was hit with FS9 and down the rates went again.I have managed to get my FPS up again although not to 50 I believe that this build of my ever evolving PC is hoing to cope with FS10 which will I am sure demand more than FS9. Something which am sure a few others are already thinking about.Andrew BrownROARING THIRTIEShttp://www.gordiusfs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Michael, While it may not be an ego thing for you I would say that it is for many of the people, just do a search for posts such as "I got 100 FPS!". Sadly many people have grabbed onto the notion that FPS is the way to compare their set ups, the higher the FPS the better their rig is supposed to be, often posts about FPS sound like kids on the play ground "my FPS is better than your FPS". :_lol The same goes with people that constantly benchmark their computers and compare the results, they want to be the king of the hill, it is all ego. I would venture a guess that most (not all) people who post their FPS are competitive, that is it is an ego thing but people who keep it quiet but try to improve it are only interested in improving their FS experience. Srini, for most people 24 FPS is fine but for some people they can percieve the flicker at 24 and would prefer a higher rate. An example of this is that any setting below 72 HZ on a monitor drives me nuts, I have asked other people who keep theirs at 60 how they can do this and they have no idea that their monitor is flickering. I don't know if it is the speed in which the eyes or the brain processes the information it receives but some people are "faster" than others. It is about the same thing in FS some people perceive the flickering at lower FPS, even 24 or higher, so for many it is a matter of being comfortable watching the screen for periods of time. I do not pretend to be an expert on any of this I hope that my explanation helps you to understand this subject a little better.All the best!Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

>Of course fluidity is important. What I'm saying is that the>sim is definitely more smooth at 30-40 stutter-free fps>than it is at 20-24 stutter-free fps. I know I can tell the>difference and it certainly isn't "ego." It's as much a feel>thing as it is a visual thing. I accept your argument, and certainly wasn't trying to accuse you of "ego". I just think that when people compare frame rates some tend to forget that there are other factors too, like said fluidity. Trouble is, fluidity is a quality, that you rightly point out is more of a 'feel'thing than something you can measure, nevertheless it's important. My point was that sometimes a lower frame rate without stutters is better that a higher frame rate with stuttering. This choice does arise sometimes.

I see your point Philip, I guess I am so used to not giving any credibility to anyone that does "brag" about their FPS as most know it is never consistant and ANYONE can achieve 100 FPS by playing with the sliders and picking the right angle of the shot.We see so many posts here with high end rigs getting bad FPS and low end rigs doing well, so any FPS contests hold no water IMORegards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

Like I said... Ego's...I just didn't see the need to opine a long post over it. I thought it was obvious, but I guess some need it strictly pointed out.Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

Nobody in this thread made mention of "100's of fps." I don't think we're talking here about people benchmarking their vid cards and I agree that those sorts of posts are laughable. I think we're talking here about much more modest (and less "ego-istic" :-roll ) figures. Anyone who is happy with the sim running at 20 or 24 fps has my blessing to continue flying that way and never try and improve it. :) I've got the sim locked at 24fps myself so I'm certainly not trying to argue it's unflyable at those sorts of framerates. But occasionally when I just want to do some aerobatics or something I'll turn off the clouds and the AI and go fly around some remote prairie airfield with the framerate unlocked and it's fairly obvious to me that everything feels alot more smooth and convincing at a constant 40 fps than it does at 20fps.

Actually, I'd say a lower framerate without stutters is ALWAYS better than a higher framerate with stutters (unless the low framerate is really low - like 8 :) ). Stutters annoy me to no end...