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helios123

proper procedure FF757 and others

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Hello,

 

Many addons come with the proper procedures however although MCE follows closely these procedures its not exactly right.  For example, for the 757, the the proper before taxi flow does not include Arming VNav and Lnav yet it does in MCE.  These things are usually armed after takeoff.  There are few little problems here and there for other aircraft too.  I'm aware we can adjust these procedures to our liking, but is there any reason why the proper procedures are not exactly followed by MCE?  It would be great if they followed the procedures by the book.  I'd imagine the developer could have just looked at these documents and just copied the right procedures and checklists.  Also if anyone has made a by the book procedures for FF757, FF777, FJS732 can you please link.  

 

thank you

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Hello,

 

Many addons come with the proper procedures however although MCE follows closely these procedures its not exactly right.  For example, for the 757, the the proper before taxi flow does not include Arming VNav and Lnav yet it does in MCE.  These things are usually armed after takeoff.  There are few little problems here and there for other aircraft too.  I'm aware we can adjust these procedures to our liking, but is there any reason why the proper procedures are not exactly followed by MCE?  It would be great if they followed the procedures by the book.  I'd imagine the developer could have just looked at these documents and just copied the right procedures and checklists.  Also if anyone has made a by the book procedures for FF757, FF777, FJS732 can you please link.  

 

thank you

 

In the real world, I can tell you for sure, when pilots undergo type rating for the aircraft, they aren't taught to say "before start procedure/flow", "taxi procedure/flow" etc...

 

It's more like, when Captain thinks it's the right time for departure, he'd initiate some action which co-pilot will take as a clue.

 

For instance, before starting engines, Captain would typically start setting up the overhead panel from memory, then call for the "before start checklist" which is the vital part. It's the checklist that will ensure the flow was completed correctly. The Captain could have said "Time to go, do your bit" or kept silent in the process.

 

 

 

I give you another example...

 

Back in the nineties, Air France was struggling to find positions for their increasingly redundant flight engineers (formerly A300-B4 and B727 FEs). One solution they devised, was to use them (don't laugh) as a third crew member on their A310 fleet. No other airline ever did that. And obviously, they had to devise special procedures to keep everyone happy in the cockpit.

 

The result.... Air France unique procedures for A310

 

Does that make them standard Airbus procedures? No, it just makes them Standard Air France procedures for their crew to conform to. Kind of let's pretend we're on the A300-B4 which has a flight engineer station)

 

Some airlines will stipulate pilot flying is the one to carry out engine start-up, others will say it has to be the Captain all the time.

 

In order to avoid petty arguments about who should flick the no-smoking switch, MCE goes for the most flexible approach.

 

You decide what you think is your area of responsibility and what you expect co-pilot to perform at various flight phases according to the real world or virtual airline you fly for. And you can trigger those actions with natural speech, rather than having to memorise specific sentences, thanks to the built-in speech simulator.

 

And if a user happens not to be interested in detailed procedures at all, he could create commands such as "make sure we're all set for take-off", then outline all actions FO must take to ensure panels are set in the proper configuration.

 

As a result, both professional pilots and amateurs will hopefully enjoy the beauty of speech recognition when applied to flight simulation, the right way. 

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Thanks for your response

 

In the real world, I can tell you for sure, when pilots undergo type rating for the aircraft, they aren't taught to say "before start procedure/flow", "taxi procedure/flow" etc...

 

It's more like, when Captain thinks it's the right time for departure, he'd initiate some action which co-pilot will take as a clue.

 

For instance, before starting engines, Captain would typically start setting up the overhead panel from memory, then call for the "before start checklist" which is the vital part. It's the checklist that will ensure the flow was completed correctly. The Captain could have said "Time to go, do your bit" or kept silent in the process.

 

 

 

I give you another example...

 

Back in the nineties, Air France was struggling to find positions for their increasingly redundant flight engineers (formerly A300-B4 and B727 FEs). One solution they devised, was to use them (don't laugh) as a third crew member on their A310 fleet. No other airline ever did that. And obviously, they had to devise special procedures to keep everyone happy in the cockpit.

 

The result.... Air France unique procedures for A310

 

Does that make them standard Airbus procedures? No, it just makes them Standard Air France procedures for their crew to conform to. Kind of let's pretend we're on the A300-B4 which has a flight engineer station)

 

Some airlines will stipulate pilot flying is the one to carry out engine start-up, others will say it has to be the Captain all the time.

 

In order to avoid petty arguments about who should flick the no-smoking switch, MCE goes for the most flexible approach.

 

You decide what you think is your area of responsibility and what you expect co-pilot to perform at various flight phases according to the real world or virtual airline you fly for. And you can trigger those actions with natural speech, rather than having to memorise specific sentences, thanks to the built-in speech simulator.

 

And if a user happens not to be interested in detailed procedures at all, he could create commands such as "make sure we're all set for take-off", then outline all actions FO must take to ensure panels are set in the proper configuration.

 

As a result, both professional pilots and amateurs will hopefully enjoy the beauty of speech recognition when applied to flight simulation, the right way. 

 

 

Thanks for your response.  I understand that different airlines may adopt different procedures, but given there's no real airline for MCE, i dont see why the choice wasn't made to simply follow the procedures provided with the aircraft; e.g. the FF757 manuals (really Boeing FCOM) say that V NAV and LNAV should be armed shortly after takeoff.  Its not a big issue.  By the way is there a way to more easily edit the procedures.  it seems you cant turn MCE on without x plane running - i want a way to easily edit the VOX scripts without turning x plane 10 on.  Also why do the Vox scripts in C:\Users\*****\Documents\Multi Crew Experience\MyVoiceScripts\Copilot\Aircraft\757RR-200 seem to have both flow and procedures which are identical?

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By the way is there a way to more easily edit the procedures.  it seems you cant turn MCE on without x plane running - i want a way to easily edit the VOX scripts without turning x plane 10 on

 

It's not possible, because MCE needs to know which flows belong to which aircraft. In addition, it's the best way to check your scripted command is working when tested with the aircraft. You can eventually edit the flows in Notepad. 

 

The only difference, the Voxscript interface will ensure all words are written in lower case and won't allow you to type digits. If you can keep that in mind, you could add commands in Notepad. Just remember to write "shutdown engine one" and NOT "shutdown engine 1". And no command can exceed 127 characters.


 

 


Also why do the Vox scripts in C:\Users\*****\Documents\Multi Crew Experience\MyVoiceScripts\Copilot\Aircraft\757RR-200 seem to have both flow and procedures which are identical?

 

Yes, they seem like duplicates. What they do is provide verbiage variation so when you ask for a flow, you won't have to remember to exactly say "before start flow", when you said "before start procedure" and nothing happened. In fact you can go one step further, take any of the flows, clone it and give it a completely different trigger sentence like "Le's get started" (or whatever comes naturally to you), and the new sentence becomes another way to trigger that flow.


 

 


the FF757 manuals (really Boeing FCOM) say that V NAV and LNAV should be armed shortly after takeoff.

 

Feel free to add these commands to your after takeoff flow/procedure

 

lnav and vnav

 

OR using separate commands

 

lnav

vnav

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the proper before taxi flow does not include Arming VNav and Lnav yet it does in MCE.  These things are usually armed after takeoff.

 

Not really, it's perfectly fine to arm them on the ground before take-off. It's also fine to engage them after take-off, it's a matter of which SOP you follow :)


Jaime Beneyto

 

My Flight Simulation videos [English & Spanish]

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