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TNguitar

Frustrated with Boeing AP Nav bttn, Loc Bttn, Hdg hold on or not?

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Man I could pull my hair out.  I am trying to learn the ils landings with the newer Boeing AP panels, the ones with the flch buttons.  Specifically the Posky 777, the Quality wings 757, and any others that use these. 

 

I have tried several times and I just have questions I can't figure out.  How do I lock on to the localizer?  Why is there a Nav button and also a localizer button?  They can both be on or not.  I am not talking about the Lnav button, I don't use the fmc in these.  In the posky 777, the lnav IS the nav button, when I put my mouse over it,  it says Nav, which leads me to think it is the same as the Nav button on the simple 737 posky planes. 

On these new ones, I can control the AP heading without the heading hold on, so I know that the hold is just for holding that altitude. 

 

I realize that the heading select button has to be on heading select for me to directly control the heading with the knob and that the auto is for FMC use, is this correct?  To use the localizer button, do I have to put the heading select knob back on auto from heading select mode?   What about the heading hold button, can it stay off and still lock on to the localizer?

 

I am hoping someone can give me a simple step by step.  I am at 1600 feet, the atc has just set me in my final for the localizer.  My heading is on heading select and I have just used the knob to turn to the heading the atc has given me before sending me to the tower for landing.  My AT is on and my speed is 170 knts.  Can someone give me a step by step from here., like

 

Turn heading knob off heading select back to auto for localizer to work?

Leave the nav button alone, you only need the localizer button?

leave heading hold button off, localizer will lock on without that?

Nav button is for this now, it does not control the localizer lock anymore like in the 737, you have a dedicated loc button now? 

 

I know how to use the appr button and get the glide slope if I can just figure out how to lock on to the localizer with these more complicated ap panels

 

Which is my last question, why in the world would Boeing make these systems more complicated than the ones in the 737-800?  Those AP systems seem so simple, straight forward and easy to use, why would they change all that?  I mean, look how the pilots got confused in the 777 SanFran accident with the flight level change button and the AT stuff?   In all the flights I have done with the 737 planes there has never been a single instance where the AP failed to be understood and to operate perfectly and to handle landing after landing. 

Sorry for such a long ramble, but I just got done with my third flight trying to figure out this AP ststem and have not been able to even lock on to the localizer.  Most every instructional site or youtube clip only deals with the flight level button and they never get in to the details of the localizer and nav buttons, the heading select thing and such. 

 

Thanks for any help

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Which is my last question, why in the world would Boeing make these systems more complicated than the ones in the 737-800?  Those AP systems seem so simple, straight forward and easy to use, why would they change all that?

personally i think the 777 is very similar in ease-of-use. i think you are running into confusion that is partially based on a misunderstanding of what some of those knobs do, and also just other factors, such as the POSKY doesn't look like it actually announces what mode is active on the main display so there is information about what it is doing that you aren't fully accessing. so it maybe is unclear what it is doing to you since you aren't completely familar with it. that also assumes that it is fully modeled correctly which i do not know, i have only used the pmdg 777.

 

 the 'auto' you are referring to on the heading select is just the bank limiter which controls how steep the plane will bank when you adjust heading and generally you leave that on auto most of the time..

 

you are correct that lnav is generally for the FMS navigation. loc is for following a tuned VOR and the app button below is for ILS approaches. typically you would have your heading hold enabled and navigate to the spot where you want to capture the ILS, then you would hit app to switch to that mode when you want it to take over, then start dialing down your airspeed and flaps as appropriate, drop gear at 5-7nm out, etc.. 

 

anyway good luck. sorry i don't know much about the posky version specifically

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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personally i think the 777 is very similar in ease-of-use. i think you are running into confusion that is partially based on a misunderstanding of what some of those knobs do, and also just other factors, such as the POSKY doesn't look like it actually announces what mode is active on the main display so there is information about what it is doing that you aren't fully accessing. so it maybe is unclear what it is doing to you since you aren't completely familar with it. that also assumes that it is fully modeled correctly which i do not know, i have only used the pmdg 777.

 

 the 'auto' you are referring to on the heading select is just the bank limiter which controls how steep the plane will bank when you adjust heading and generally you leave that on auto most of the time..

 

you are correct that lnav is generally for the FMS navigation. loc is for following a tuned VOR and the app button below is for ILS approaches. typically you would have your heading hold enabled and navigate to the spot where you want to capture the ILS, then you would hit app to switch to that mode when you want it to take over, then start dialing down your airspeed and flaps as appropriate, drop gear at 5-7nm out, etc.. 

 

anyway good luck. sorry i don't know much about the posky version specifically

 

cheers

-andy crosby

Thanks for the try Andy, but I am no closer to the answer.  The heading select knob has to be on heading select for me to directly control the heading of the plane with the heading knob, the plane turns when I change the value.  With it off heading select mode it will not turn.  Yes, on the PFD it shows when heading select is on.

My two min questions are, why do both the Posky and the QW 757 have a nav button and a loc button?  On the 757, it has an Lnav, Nav, AND loc button.  What in the world is the nav button for if the loc is the one that is supposed to lock on to the localizer? 

 

When I was vectored to the localizer intercept heading, I turned and got the "Fly straight in" instruction, I then hit the loc button but the plane flew right past the intercept without locking on.  I did have the heading selector set to heading select, not auto, so I am wondering if I have to put the heading select back to auto for the loc to grab the localizer.  But I also noticed that I could turn the nav button on as well,the loc button stayed lit whether the Nav button was on or not (nav, not Lnav)   So this has me wondering what the nav button is for since we now have a loc button.  Why would the 757 have an Lnav, Nav, and loc button? 

Next I guess I will try putting the heading knob back to auto and off heading select mode before I hit the loc button.  That may make sense because locking in is an auto feature I guess, and it would make sense in that using the heading select button is for directly controlling the heading as you turn the knob. 

 

I just wish I could find a simple explanation of these functions somewhere.  

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POSKY 777 - no PMDG, but a fine freeware lite flight product.You've not got it set to GPS have you? LNAV follows GPS.

 

The heading select part of the autopliot: The auto text to one side of the knob is just bank angle select. The button says SEL. You push that so that heading hold is on and you can then change the heading yourself as you have been doing. To get the plane to establish on the localiser you need to have that button deselected (tooltip shows OFF) with the LOC button active.Once established, watch for the glideslope indicator becoming active then hit APP.

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POSKY 777 - no PMDG, but a fine freeware lite flight product.You've not got it set to GPS have you? LNAV follows GPS.

 

The heading select part of the autopliot: The auto text to one side of the knob is just bank angle select. The button says SEL. You push that so that heading hold is on and you can then change the heading yourself as you have been doing. To get the plane to establish on the localiser you need to have that button deselected (tooltip shows OFF) with the LOC button active.Once established, watch for the glideslope indicator becoming active then hit APP.

You nailed it.  I had already discovered this finally last night.  Thank goodness I have the FS approaches by Pefect flight.  That allowed me to fly the 777 and be close to ils setup without having to do full flights for each teast.  Just as you said, when I made sure and took the select button off heading select, the pfd said loc only on it and she locked right on to the localizer perfectly.  What a relief. 

Today I went in to the posky plane and changed the 42 bit textures down to 16 bit and it flys much better with a high fps on my laptop.  So now I just love that posky 777 with the jbpannel.  Just perfect for a uncomplicated plane like I love. 

 

I also checked on the QW 757, same thing, it locked on fine when I made sure and turned that heading select knob off.

 

Thanks for the interest guys, hopefully anyone else trying to figure this out will find this post.

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