Visual Approaches

[Guest]

So assuming the weather is good, ATC can give you a visual approach. Does that essentially mean you can go ahead and land however you want?In the video I am watching they get cleared for a visual approach. Then the pilot flying disconnects the auto pilot and flys manually. But why would you choose that option? Isn't it safer to use the autopilot?Secondly, by disconnecting the autopilot (say in a 737) you must control BOTH the pitch and roll? Or is there a way to let the autopilot control the pitch and control the roll manually?John.

[Guest Chief Wiggum]

First of all, the ATC will never assign you a visual approach, unless you ask for it. It essencially means that ATC will vector you to the "localizer", and then you can land normally.You can definitely use the autopilot, but flying manually is way easier than setting the autopilot so that you're always perfectly aligned and on the glidepath (that would take quite longer than just assuming the controls!). And it helps on keeping the skills sharp.Yes, you must control pitch and roll. Also, you are supposed to have the autothrottle disconnected by the time you disconnect the autopilot.Hope that helps you a little!

[aerdt 0]

...not true. FSATC has assigned me plenty of times a visual approach.Cheers.

[Guest Chief Wiggum]

I was talking about real ATC :)

[Guest]

> Also, you are supposed to have the autothrottle disconnected by the time you disconnect the autopilot.So you must control the pitch, roll and the throttle manually? You can't leave autothrottle on when disconnecting the autopilot?John.

[Guest aarskringspier]

>First of all, the ATC will never assign you a visual>approach, unless you ask for it. It essencially means that ATC>will vector you to the "localizer", and then you can land>normally.>>You can definitely use the autopilot, but flying manually is>way easier than setting the autopilot so that you're always>perfectly aligned and on the glidepath (that would take quite>longer than just assuming the controls!). And it helps on>keeping the skills sharp.>>Yes, you must control pitch and roll. Also, you are supposed>to have the autothrottle disconnected by the time you>disconnect the autopilot.>>Hope that helps you a little!Listening on LiveATC Ive heard plenty of Visual Approaches assigned. I must be missing something.

[Guest dpc]

depends on the A/CDave

[MKaprocki 3]

>First of all, the ATC will never assign you a visual>approach, unless you ask for it. It essencially means that ATC>will vector you to the "localizer", and then you can land>normally.I don't know about elsewhere, but in the US ATC can and will assign a visual approach without you asking for it. You're thinking of a contact approach.A visual approach doesn't have anything to do with the localizer. You could be set up on the downwind and they can clear you for a visual approach. You would just fly it as if you were VFR (because you're in VMC now).

[brucek 38]

You may be getting confused with a Contact Approach. ATC can, and will, assign a visual approach when the weather at the arrival airport is reported as 3 statute miles and 1,000' ceiling or greater. Of course, as a pilot, you can always request another approach. In order to accept a visual you must have either the arrival airport or the preceding aircraft in sight, and if this sight is lost then you must go missed immediately (regardless of whether you expect to regain visual contact in a few seconds as you pass through a cloud). Also the approach must be authorized and controlled by an ATC facility.One of the issues of a visual that is more confusing than other approaches is that there is no published missed approach. So, until you contact ATC and get vectors or direct to a fix, you are on your own. Bruce.

[brucek 38]

Flying an approach on auto-pilot is never safer than a manual approach unless:1. The minimums are so low that automation is required.2. The pilot can't fly the plane on a stabilized approach- in which case he/she shouldn't be flying it in IFR :)The IFR checkride (with the FAA) has been recently modified so that now one of the required 3 approaches must be done by auto-pilot (if the a/c is so equipped). This sounds like one of the three approaches would be a slam dunk, being able to let the auto-pilot fly the airplane. However, it's not (this was my "strike one" on my ride). And the reason it's now in the checkride is because pilots didn't know how to use it properly,when things got tough and the single pilot in IFR needed additional resources.Bruce.

[Guest BlueRidgeDx]

Saw this thread earlier, but I was at work so I couldn't respond until now.You guys beat me to the explanations of the difference between a visual and a contact approach, the need to have the preceding traffic in sight, the use of automation, etc. But I'd like to share another observation with the original poster:At large Class B airports, using the visual approach is the preferred method of operation. Take ATL for instance. During westerly operations, if the conditions are IMC and simultaneous parallel ILS approaches are in use, the airport can accept 68-78 arrivals per hour.If the conditions are VMC, but less than 3600-7, the parallel ILS approaches are still used, but the separation is reduced yielding an increased Arrival Rate of 80-86 per hour.Finally, if the weather is above 3600-7, then simultaneous visual approaches are conducted, and the Arrival Rate jumps to 88-96 per hour.Sometimes a difference of only 4 or 5 arrivals per hour will decide whether an airport will Ground Stop or not. If you want to see the numbers for your favorite airport, go here:http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/On the left, pick West Directory or East Directory depending on which half of the country you're looking for. Next, pick the appropriate ARTCC. Finally, pick the selected airport and you will be presented with a page that shows every available runway configuration.Enjoy,Nick

[XWRed5 0]

>Flying an approach on auto-pilot is never safer than a manual>approach unless:>1. The minimums are so low that automation is required.>2. The pilot can't fly the plane on a stabilized approach- in>which case he/she shouldn't be flying it in IFR :)...You're kidding right? Or are you just talking about GA?

[RFields5421 1]

Okay let's separate this topic into two sections because it's all over the place and pretty useless to anyone without 10,000 hours in FS and real aircraft.Flight Sim 2004 - Default setup - no ATC addons(1) A visual approach will be assigned on any runway without a terminal approach procedure written into the FS database. (2) AI aircraft will receive a visual approach if the weather is above 3 miles visibility and there is no IFR approach in the database.(3) No visual approach will be assigned to any aircraft for any runway without a terminal approach procedure when the visibility is less than 3 miles.(4) Lining up the autopilot on any terminal approach procedure is very easy in FS2004 if that approach is selected and activated - and the NAV/GPS switch is in the GPS position. The GPS will take you right down to the runway, even on a VOR or NDB approach.(5) For any manual autopilot input you need to have the GPS/NAV switch in the NAV position. You could set the default autopilot for a decision height altitude (200-250 feet above runway altitude at many airports) and a 500 FPM descent to control pitch. You might be able to turn off the heading and manually control that axis of flight - it depends upon the aircraft and the autopilot used.(6) Frequently an autopilot controlled approach in FS will be easier than a manual / visual approach due to the inherent lack of visual clues in a 2D computer screen.Real World - (these comments really belong in the Hanger Chat Forum)(1) See various other comments about assigning visual approaches(2) In most real aircraft - pitch is controlled by the throttle on final - not the autopilot.(3) My experience is limited to such aircraft as the Lockheed P-3, the Douglas A-3 Skywarrior, the Lockheed C-121 & EC-121 Super Constellation, the Cessna 152, the Cessna 172SP, the Bombardier Challenger 601 & 604, and the Gulfstream 200. I am not a pilot but I have been in the cockpit / jump seat of each for several landings.(a) I've never seen the PRIMARY approach method to be an autopilot / ILS / Localizer approach unless the airport called for such an approach - OR - the weather and visibility were poor. Even then the autopilot, and autothrottle in the G-200, was turned off when the runway was firmly in sight. At new airports - the ILS localizer and Glide Path display on the HSI - or equivalent in the older aircraft - was used as a guide - however the approach was usually flown manually.(:( A real world pilot has much better visual clues and situational awareness from the prepherial vision, the tactile feedback from the aircraft in the seat of his/her pants, the audio feedback from the sound of the engines and wind - that quite often they can fly an approach without looking at the instrument panel - and be darn near perfect.(4) My conversations with real pilots of B757, DC-10, B737, A320 aircraft - just to mention a few - all emphasize that the final approach and landing is visual / manual. They all feel that they need to practice manual landings as much as possible in good weather - so that they have enhance their feel for the aircraft and understanding of it's feedback.They never know when they might have a situation requiring a manual landing like the jetBlue bird at KLAX recently.IMHO reliance upon the autopilot to make all the approaches is extremely UNSAFE.If it's mechanical or electrical - it's gonna break sometime.

[brucek 38]

Excellent post Reggie- thanks for clearing up my confusion :).Bruce.

[monnie 1]

OOOHHHH___Now I understand! Thanks for making it practical. I was getting ready to uninstall out of fear:-)Best regardsJan1,KINDWhen I push the button and it works, I'm happy:-)