I finally took the plunge into the Vatsim waters. I have been useing FS for over ten years now and finally got the nerve to give it a shot. With the new versions it was easier than I ever could have imagined. In fact the toughest part was getting my old IP based email active, so I could activate my Vatsim account. I started at some smaller airports flying only VFR and basically listening to the traffic at the busy airports. Then I flew into some busiers airspace IFR with some less complex aircraft ie. the PMDG 1900. Today I just flew a 737 from KLAX to KLAS and it was wonderful! It was pretty busy at KLAX with center handling it all, but the gentleman did a fabulous job. For those of you thinking about doing this,,, DO IT! Thanks to all those that make VATSIM possible. It has opened a new door for me into the flightsim world!Scott Burke

Scott, I have thought about it, but what has stopped me is the same old problem. You have to fly where there are controllers rather than where you want to fly. Everytime I mention how I want to fly from KSCH to KPOU or east and the lack of coverage I get the same old response to look online and find where the people are. Sorry, but I get tired of flying out of big airports through the same old airspace. I am going to get the new radar contact. It may not be live, but I don't have to deal with attitudes and I can fly when I want.

>Scott,> I have thought about it, but what has stopped me is the>same old problem. You have to fly where there are controllers>rather than where you want to fly. Everytime I mention how I>want to fly from KSCH to KPOU or east and the lack of coverage>I get the same old response to look online and find where the>people are.>> Sorry, but I get tired of flying out of big airports>through the same old airspace. I am going to get the new radar>contact. It may not be live, but I don't have to deal with>attitudes and I can fly when I want.Since I have got Radar Contact, I haven't flown on Vatsim at all. I also got tired of searching for online controllers and having to limit my times and places that I can fly.

Man, I don't know. All I hear is negatives about the online flying. Sure once and while people give it hight marks like you did, but you've only experienced a little bit. Wait until you get a nasty controller who thinks it's real life and talks down to you for making a minor mistake. Simulation is one thing, but it's also a hobby for fun. Plus so many dead areas, what's the point.Here's something I read on the ZAB ARTCC forums that I thought was funny, but uncool because they were messing with someone:Posted On ZAB ARTCC Forums - I've had 2 reports in the past 2 days from pilots telling me they've come across a ZAB controller who likes to act like he's a "cowboy" or something and lay on a thick accent and rattle off his instructions in lightning speed.These pilots didn't know, or didn't tell names, and it's not important. What they did say was they felt the controller was young, and that if they receive that type of service again, they'll fly elsewhere.

I tried Vatsim thing few times. Not only there was average 20 controllers online in whole world, but half of those I flew into didn't know what they were doing, but they were pretending that they were professional controllers doing it in real world, with all the uneeded stress and stupid remarks.No thanks.

I am nearing my 2000hr mark on VATSIM and would like to say I have NEVER had any attitude on VATSIM with any controller.They do tend get a little stressed with impatient people who cannot take instruction or have no idea how to even navigate there own Aircraft.But if you take the time to be prepared it will beat flying canned flights any day of the week.I used to run Ultimate traffic and since day 1 on VATSIM I have never reinstalled it.As for having to fly where you want, Whats stopping you? Alot of the times if I start a flight with no ATC I usually get some enroute.I'm always amazed at the surveys that have 75% of teh people flying offline.I bet

when I can fly online and with all the AI I have added, thats the day I will sign up for vatsim.Until then, I just enjoy having all the real flights on my game and don't want to search around for active centers.

I don't fly online, because most airports look as boring and deserted as in the flightsim generation from 5 years ago. The added realism that I get from talking to a controller online is taken away by non-existing unrealistic traffic where I don't see a plane for most of the flight and most of the time don't even have a controller available. RCv4 has closed the ATC gap for me.Pat

>I am nearing my 2000hr mark on VATSIM and would like to say I>have NEVER had any attitude on VATSIM with any controller.>They do tend get a little stressed with impatient people who>cannot take instruction or have no idea how to even navigate>there own Aircraft.>But if you take the time to be prepared it will beat flying>canned flights any day of the week.>I used to run Ultimate traffic and since day 1 on VATSIM I>have never reinstalled it.>As for having to fly where you want, Whats stopping you? >Alot of the times if I start a flight with no ATC I usually>get some enroute.>I'm always amazed at the surveys that have 75% of teh people>flying offline.>I bet

1. I have found that flying online has really stretched me. This summer I met up with some pilots who were far more knowledgeable than I, and encouraged me to try new things. 2. The paucity of ATC staffing is admittedly a problem. There are three responses I can think of: (a) get RC, (b)fly off-line (there's no VATSIM secret police to report when you don't fly on the network), or © fly where there is ATC and don't limit yourself to places you already know about. Ok, so there's no ATC in the Pacific Northwest right this minute -- but there is ATC in Brazil. So go fly in Brazil and learn something new! I've noticed that a lot of people get bored with FS precisely because it's so open-ended. Flying where there's ATC -- even if it's not where you intended to fly -- is a way to combine outside structure and novelty at the same time.

See this is where I can't define the logic.You would prefer to fly with AI and hit a button to respond to ATC rather than talk to a real person and experience real scenerios." when I can fly online and with all the AI I have added, thats the day I will sign up for vatsim I just enjoy having all the real flights on my game and don't want to search around for active centers"What Real Flights?What Active Centers? it's all computer generated ! I started a Flight tonight from CYEG-KMSP with no ATC OnlineSalt Lake CTR came onlineMinneapolis CTR came online St.Paul App came onlineSo with the exception of Edmonton CTR I was fully staffed for a flight starting with Zero ATC.I just really think (Like the original post stated)That ALOT of people are missing out because they don't try it.Or stay away because of something they heard. "all the real flights on my game" You mean SIMULATOR !!!FYI this years poll of 20001152 Are not a member of VATSIM, IVAO or similar?So how busy would the skies be if they were members ???Cheers

Of course, we're talking about a simulation here, but a simulation naturally aims to simulated 'realistic operation procedure compared to real-life'.How busy would the skies be if all of the non-members were members? Not as busy as with with my Ultimate Traffic setup, because it is simply not possible to simulate all r/l operations with 'human' pilots. That's why I switched to offline with 100% AI and Radar Contact.Now, how realistic is it, if I fly with r/l weather when the controller has his VATSIM ATIS with an incorrect runway? How realistic are empty airports with no/little delays and no traffic? How realistic is not having any online ATC available on your flight at all?I have all those features flying offline. The only realistic feature that online ATC currently offers is voice interaction.Pat

I have to agree that I've had no attitude problems. I've had worse attitudes from real-world controllers.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

Some discussing this, may not be aware or realize living in different countries can make a difference in controllers available. England, is smaller than many states in the US, and no larger than many others. Fewer controllers can cover the entire country. In the US, there are vast areas without any coverage, ever, at any time of the day. Personally, I prefer to fly GA aircraft, with ATC, and have flown around the world now seven times. As Ive been retired since 1992, spend 95% of my time on the computer using FS, the rest downloading addons. Total time usually more than 8-9 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. Since the first version of Radar Control, it has dramatically improved my enjoyment of the FS. Today, I would not even be using the FS, if Radar Control had not been created. Just before it came out was seriously considering dumping it, as I'd developed a new Interest, and career in the Art Field.... Was spending 90% of my time painting...RC revived my interest in the Flight Sim, though now my time is split between the FS and Painting.

Being a VATSIM Center controller at San Juan, Puerto Rico I must say I do take all the criticism to the ATC's a bit to heart... But for once, I'll let you hear the controller side of things.I come online an average of 5 hours a day, normally in peak hours. Some days (most of the holidays) I will be online more than once a day, covering a total of 7 or 8 hours of ATC. Yet for a good portion of my time my scope is empty, because pilots simply do not fly in my region. You complain about lack of ATC... I try my best to keep my region covered, but if nobody wants to try a different destination for once, they've no right to complain IMO.A lot of the problems people have mentioned are common sense. One that's famous here is "Oh, the controller left 5 mins. after I took off". Did you bother to hail the Controller and ask how long he'd be online? Most of the time this happens the controller's been online several hours in a row, and has had an empty scope for a good portion of the time.As for controllers not knowing what they're doing and having an attitude... Don't even get me started. If I had a penny for every pilot who doesn't know what a holding pattern is, or who simply ignores my presence and instructions, I'd be a millionaire. :-lol VATSIM Controllers have to read up, take written tests, and be evaluated on the job in order to get to control larger facilities... Pilots have absolutely no requirements except having an ID. Most of us will be educated when the pilots don't know what they're doing, but there's always bad apples. Again, the pilots suffer from this one too. I invite you to download ASRC and observe a Center at work... Sometimes you get some feisty ones. :-lolSo, the next time you complain about lack of controllers, check around... If you're only willing to fly US domestic, you'll encounter the problem you describe. But try flying in Europe, for a change. It gets totally insane in their evenings. Or how about paying me a visit in the Caribbean? Usually Santo Domingo approach is online as often as I am, and he gets 2-3 planes a day. Maiquetia Center opens almost every day... Try some flying in different regions, it can't hurt. The US isn't the world, ya know. :)Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)