hvw

Wrong Default Transition Altitude in 737-8/900

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Although I specified (and saved) in my user-created panel state options (Equipment/Default Trans Alt) that I would like to have this  defaulted to 5000 ft, still the 800/900 neglect this and assumes that the default transition altidute is 18000ft. This undocumented feature only occurs in the P3D version 4 of the 800/900, in P3D version 3 this worked correctly.
What could have gone wrong and how can I correct this?

Thanks,
Hans van Wijhe

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Just now, hvw said:

Although I specified (and saved) in my user-created panel state options (Equipment/Default Trans Alt) that I would like to have this  defaulted to 5000 ft, still the 800/900 neglect this and assumes that the default transition altidute is 18000ft. This undocumented feature only occurs in the P3D version 4 of the 800/900, in P3D version 3 this worked correctly.
What could have gone wrong and how can I correct this?

Thanks,
Hans van Wijhe

Running the sim as admin?

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2 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

Running the sim as admin?

Yes, all other options are being saved alright, Default Trans Alt being the exception

Hans van Wijhe

 

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2 hours ago, hvw said:

Yes, all other options are being saved alright, Default Trans Alt being the exception

Hans van Wijhe

Default panel state will override the default trans alt in the settings.

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1 minute ago, scandinavian13 said:

Default panel state will override the default trans alt in the settings.

Yes, but it doesn't do so here, Kyle. I defined the default transition altitude in the used panel state at 5,000ft. I also set this particular panel state as the one to be loaded at 737's startup. In the FMC however,it still is set at 18,000ft. As mentioned, in my P3dv3 in the FMC it also would be set to, in this case, 5,000ft in the FMC, which I think is correct. Any ideas what is going wrong in my P3Dv4 installation?

 

Hans

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3 minutes ago, hvw said:

Yes, but it doesn't do so here, Kyle. I defined the default transition altitude in the used panel state at 5,000ft. I also set this particular panel state as the one to be loaded at 737's startup. In the FMC however,it still is set at 18,000ft. As mentioned, in my P3dv3 in the FMC it also would be set to, in this case, 5,000ft in the FMC, which I think is correct. Any ideas what is going wrong in my P3Dv4 installation?

Panel state, or the PMDG SETUP> settings for that specific aircraft? These are separate points. Additionally, you're absolutely sure you're running both sims as an admin? What about the panel serialization function in the P3D settings?

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3 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Panel state, or the PMDG SETUP> settings for that specific aircraft? These are separate points. Additionally, you're absolutely sure you're running both sims as an admin? What about the panel serialization function in the P3D settings?

In PMDG SETUP I set it to 5,000ft, saved it, set the corresponding (saved) panel state as the one to be used at this aircraft's startup. And later when programming the FMC this 5,000ft is being overriden for to me no apparant reason and set to 18,000ft. I am running both sims as an admin, very sure about that :) Not sure, though ,what you mean by panel serialization in the P3D settings? As mentioned, all other options that I changed from the NGX DEFAULT panel state to the saved panel state that I used for starting up with the NGX are working as expected. It's only this Default Transition Altitude option that is "acting" up.

 

Hans

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18 minutes ago, hvw said:

In PMDG SETUP I set it to 5,000ft, saved it, set the corresponding (saved) panel state as the one to be used at this aircraft's startup. And later when programming the FMC this 5,000ft is being overriden for to me no apparant reason and set to 18,000ft. I am running both sims as an admin, very sure about that :) Not sure, though ,what you mean by panel serialization in the P3D settings? As mentioned, all other options that I changed from the NGX DEFAULT panel state to the saved panel state that I used for starting up with the NGX are working as expected. It's only this Default Transition Altitude option that is "acting" up.

Hans,

Let me clarify a bit, because I think we're talking past each other.

If you go into PMDG SETUP> you can set the default transition alt for the specific aircraft. This will save in the aircraft's ini file.

If you look at the DES page for the aircraft you're currently flying, you will note that there's some value there (likely 18000, as you've reported). This is saved into the panel state. Unless you modify the panel state, it will always override the aircraft's specific default.

In other words, no matter how many times you set the default transition alt for the specific aircraft, the panel state will always override it. In order for the value to not be overridden, you need a panel state with that value saved into it, or you need to load without a default panel state. So, instead of setting it in PMDG SETUP>, set the value on the DES FORECAST page, and overwrite your panel state.

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58 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Hans,

Let me clarify a bit, because I think we're talking past each other.

If you go into PMDG SETUP> you can set the default transition alt for the specific aircraft. This will save in the aircraft's ini file.

If you look at the DES page for the aircraft you're currently flying, you will note that there's some value there (likely 18000, as you've reported). This is saved into the panel state. Unless you modify the panel state, it will always override the aircraft's specific default.

In other words, no matter how many times you set the default transition alt for the specific aircraft, the panel state will always override it. In order for the value to not be overridden, you need a panel state with that value saved into it, or you need to load without a default panel state. So, instead of setting it in PMDG SETUP>, set the value on the DES FORECAST page, and overwrite your panel state.

Kyle,

I should have been more specific, sorry for confusing you. I am referring to the ACT PERF INIT page where the trans altitude, no matter what was defined in the pmdg setup, is being reset to 18,000ft. Hope I made it a bit clearer for you now. I tried to attach screen shots but wasn't succeful.

 

Hans

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6 minutes ago, hvw said:

I should have been more specific, sorry for confusing you. I am referring to the ACT PERF INIT page where the trans altitude, no matter what was defined in the pmdg setup, is being reset to 18,000ft. Hope I made it a bit clearer for you now. I tried to attach screen shots but wasn't succeful.

Not what I'm seeing on my machine. When you modified the ACT PERF INIT page, did you save the panel state post-modification?

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4 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Not what I'm seeing on my machine. When you modified the ACT PERF INIT page, did you save the panel state post-modification?

No, I didn't.

Hans

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15 hours ago, hvw said:

No, I didn't.

That's why. As mentioned, the panel state will override the other setting. If you don't save it into the panel state, the 18000 in the panel state you're using will always come back.

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55 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

That's why. As mentioned, the panel state will override the other setting. If you don't save it into the panel state, the 18000 in the panel state you're using will always come back.

I assumed that the settings in PMDG SETUP were presets and would be used in the flight yet to be made. Funnily enough it worked as I expected it would in P3Dv3, but now I am beginning to doubt my memory :) Perhaps I did save it as described by you in the previous (P3Dv3) version. Thanks for your assitance, Kyle, much appreciated.

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16 minutes ago, hvw said:

I assumed that the settings in PMDG SETUP were presets and would be used in the flight yet to be made. Funnily enough it worked as I expected it would in P3Dv3, but now I am beginning to doubt my memory :) Perhaps I did save it as described by you in the previous (P3Dv3) version. Thanks for your assitance, Kyle, much appreciated.

Welcome!

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I don't know why this option is available because it doesn't work in the way it seems it should. Far better to tell people to use a panel state save and ignore the CDU option. Better still remove it as it is the panel state which determines the TA and TL. 

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On 7/30/2017 at 7:58 AM, kevinh said:

I don't know why this option is available because it doesn't work in the way it seems it should. Far better to tell people to use a panel state save and ignore the CDU option. Better still remove it as it is the panel state which determines the TA and TL. 

It absolutely does work exactly as designed. I loaded the KLM livery with no state saved and it loaded the default TA/TL just fine. And I did just tell people to use the panel state save...pretty much for an entire page. Literally my first post said that the panel state overrides the default.

And no...just because you don't understand it or don't like it doesn't mean that we should remove an option.

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I have to open up the case again, because it is not solved for me:

1.) Changed in FMS Settings DEFAULT TRANS ALT to 10000FT

RElMnIG.jpg

2.) Saved Panel State as MYPANEL and defined MYPANEL as Startup Panel State.

3.) Restarted Prepar3Dv4 ---> FMC still shows 18000FT

GnvLzat.jpg

z7HBtW8.jpg

And yes, I started Prepar3Dv4 as Administrator.

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2 minutes ago, Rene Billiani said:

2.) Saved Panel State as MYPANEL and defined MYPANEL as Startup Panel State.

Sorry for the doubt on this one, but this is the one step that isn't confirmed by a screenshot, and it actually one of the most important ones here...

EDIT: To be clear, you MUST set the altitude on the PERF INIT page and the DES FORECAST page as well before saving the panel state.

To clarify:

  1. Absent any other value (from a panel state, etc), the aircraft will load the default.
  2. If there is a panel state, it will load the value in the panel state.
  3. If you save a panel state, it will save the value previously loaded in the panel state (not the default value, even if you've updated it), unless you have changed it on the PERF INIT or DES FORECAST page.
  4. In order for that saved value to be present on load, the panel state must be set as the default.

So:

  1. Load the plane.
  2. Update the value on the PERF INIT and DES FORECAST pages.
  3. Save the panel state.
  4. Set that state as default.

Unless you are going to set the plane to load without a panel state, the default value will not do anything.

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5 minutes ago, Rene Billiani said:

PANEL STATE: MYPANEL

Please follow the steps listed above.

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Thanks, Kyle,
I assumed, that PAGE 2/11 – FMS DEFAULT TRANS ALT does the trick alone. Now I know, how the system works.

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7 minutes ago, Rene Billiani said:

Thanks, Kyle,
I assumed, that PAGE 2/11 – FMS DEFAULT TRANS ALT does the trick alone. Now I know, how the system works.

Welcome. I'll admit that it's a bit confusing, but if you look into the whole thing, it might start to make some sense. 

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On 31/07/2017 at 1:08 PM, scandinavian13 said:

It absolutely does work exactly as designed. I loaded the KLM livery with no state saved and it loaded the default TA/TL just fine. And I did just tell people to use the panel state save...pretty much for an entire page. Literally my first post said that the panel state overrides the default.

And no...just because you don't understand it or don't like it doesn't mean that we should remove an option.

When I said "you" I didn't mean you personally but PMDG generally. The Intro Manual says panel state will override these settings because of the way these FMC altitudes are initialised. It's the only CDU option which is affected like this and it could be explained a lot better. It just sounds like it couldn't be made to work so it has to be like this.

You are partially correct in that I didn't fully understand things as documented. You've talked about loading the aircraft without a saved state. The original 737 Intro Manual used similar words, IIRC. Loading without a panel state didn't make sense to me as I couldn't see how you could load the aircraft without one, so I couldn't see how it could ever work. Now I realise it meant a user panel state. If you load with a PMDG panel state the option works, as you said.

Apologies for my original comment, but if the Intro Manual was clearer I would not have misunderstood it.

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