mrtennis924

ATC does not understand pilots reply of "unable" and NAV issues

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Dave,  just started using this yesterday and I am really impressed with it. However I do have some issues and I don't know if it's because I have updated nav  database or some other problem. 

One   problem was flying X-Plane 11, from Teterboro (KTEB) airport to Atlantic City (KACY) IFR with the flightplan filed.  The flight plan was set up in such a way as to go around the TFR in New Jersey because of the president. While flying to my first waypoint west of Teterboro, ATC wanted me to turn south into the TFR I responded with "unable",  but they continue to try to turn me into the TFR .

 The second issue I had was on the return flight from Atlantic City to Republic airport (KFRG) on Long Island via aflight plan taking me north thru New Jersey then across to the JFK VOR  to transition to RNAV approach 01 at KFRG. ATC after T/O turned me SSE for miles and never turned me north.

Like I said earlier I don't know if the issue is with my Navigraph database 1707 in X-Plane 11, or some other issue. I know there's a new cycle today and I have not downloaded that yet.

Also  I think ATC should respect a pilots response of  "unable".

Any help or clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Tony

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Hi Tony

This interests me, never heard of TFR before, perhaps I'm in the UK and that is why!

Anyway I found this :

https://www.aircharteradvisors.com/presidential-tfr-new-jersey/

In your case would you not just re-file the FP to take you around the TFR or is it an ATC 'thing'  that vectors around the TFR, I've no idea but would like to know.

Also P2A  would expect you to follow your filed FP, hence the 'unable'.  P2A is not aware of any TFR as they are not in the AIRAC data.

When you headed west did P2A tell you to  'turn heading'  or anything else?

 

Could you post the FP's that you filed with P2A, thanks

Can anyone else chime in here with more details on how TFR's and ATC works in the realworld etc, would be good

The 'Also  I think ATC should respect a pilots response of  "unable".'

ATC can 'see' more than the pilot and there would have to be a very good reason why the pilot is unable. Yes in this case it was the TFR, which ATC is not aware of

Thanks

 

Clive

 

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This route(PFPX)  goes though the TFR

 

TEB V214 DIRMY V213 RBV DCT CYN DCT VCN V184 ACY

 

They(TFR) appear in the NOTAM in PFPX

 

│KSMQ (SOMERSET, UNITED STATES)                                      UTC -04:00│
└──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
 08/033
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3067 ZDC 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 20:00 2017 UNTIL 21 AUG 
 00:30
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:07 2017
 
 08/032
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3062 ZNY 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 20:00 2017 UNTIL 21 AUG 
 00:30
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:07 2017
 
 08/031
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3061 ZBW 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 20:00 2017 UNTIL 18 AUG 
 22:00
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:02 2017
 
 08/030
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3060 ZNY 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 20:00 2017 UNTIL 18 AUG 
 22:00
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:02 2017
 
 08/029
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3050 ZBW 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 14:30 2017 UNTIL 18 AUG 
 16:30
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:02 2017
 
 08/028
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/3049 ZNY 91.141 VIP TFR. 18 AUG 14:30 2017 UNTIL 18 AUG 
 16:30
 2017. CREATED: 17 AUG 04:02 2017
 
 08/027
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/1583 ZNY 91.141 VIP TFR. 16 AUG 17:45 2017 UNTIL 21 AUG 
 00:30
 2017. CREATED: 15 AUG 15:15 2017
 
 08/026
 AIRSPACE SEE FDC 7/1582 ZDC 91.141 VIP TFR. 16 AUG 17:45 2017 UNTIL 21 AUG 
 00:30
 2017. CREATED: 15 AUG 15:14 2017
 

The FDC reference is here:

https://www.nbaa.org/ops/airspace/alerts/notams/vip-tfrs/

 

So, I think it is a company dispatch job after reading the NOTAMS to re plan the route

 

 

 

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Tony,

It sounds like you planned to avoid the TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) area but Pilot2ATC, not knowing anything about TFRs, tried vectoring you through it.

At this point, P2A is not aware of TFRs and has no way for you to enter them, so this can happen.  Also, it does not currently handle a response of "unable".  As you can imagine, implementing that capability is a major effort since it would involve having different courses of action for every different "unable" response.

On the second issue, if you could send me the log file I might could see what happened.  On SIDs with a manual vector, P2A would normally give you a heading along with a "...direct to xxxx" so you are cleared to the next waypoint in the flight plan.  I can't think of a scenario where you would get a vector on departure other than that, but the log file might show me what went wrong. 

Log files are located in:

C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Roaming\P2A_200\Logs

where <UserName> is your PC user name

A new one is created each time you start Pilot2ATC.

You can email to me at admin@pilot2atc.com or upload to your cloud and put a link here.

Thanks,

Dave

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To Clive,

 My flight plan was set up to go around the TFR so I didn't need to refile it here is the flight plan: KTEB PIYIN COL GXU ACY ILS OR LOC/DME RWY 31 KACY 6000ft.

 As far as the response unable I don't know how it is outside of the US but here in the US it is  one of the most important words that we have in our pilots vocabulary when dealing with ATC .  There are many reasons why we may say that one of which is on approach and ATC wants us to speed up to a speed that we're not able to do so we would reply with unable. Altitudes are another reason why we may reply with unable, maybe we just can't climb as high as they want us to or maybe we can't descend  as fast as they want us to or we're not comfortable doing something in which case we can reply with unable and ATC must work around that.

Tony

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