I can't speak to the accuracy of the wingflex found in PMDG models, but I will say that for whatever reason the FPS of these animations in P3D is quite low for some reason.  I think this plays a large role in how 'realistic' the wingflex animations look as well, as they do certainly look quite choppy.  This could certainly be a P3D issue though considering that it's still FSX base code

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:08 PM, scandinavian13 said:

We don't build planes on opinions. We build them on data. Bring data. Until that point, it's just an opinion, and the world of physics and sims doesn't run on those.

actually this isn't entirely true when it comes to a lot of animations and 3d modelling and textures, I happen to know this first hand that often its not possible to model everything from data, quite often in very complex projects many items will be done by eye and this always leaves room for error as it then will come down to one persons opinion or another. Its a bit of a myth that everything is modelled precisely from blueprints etc by even the top developers simply because this isn't always practical or possible even at the highest level when it comes to the graphics, modelling and texture side of development. A lot of the time there simply wont be data/ measurements available for some items and in those cases then other routes to find as realistic a solution as possible may be used such as personal experience, utube videos, photos  etc . I think the system/ coding side of development tend to lean more heavily on data than the graphics side which is where realism depends a lot more an the graphic artists ability to transfer what he sees in to his art work and there in lies the skill that makes them a good artist rather than just a mathematician. 

 

So actually the world of sims as far as the graphics and animations are concerned certainly can rely on opinions and any 3d modeller or graphic artist dev will be able to relate to that. I think a lot of simmers would be amazed to know how much modelling and animation is simply done by eye!

 

nick caldwell

4 hours ago, nickcaldwell4587 said:

actually this isn't entirely true when it comes to a lot of animations and 3d modelling and textures, I happen to know this first hand that often its not possible to model everything from data, quite often in very complex projects many items will be done by eye and this always leaves room for error as it then will come down to one persons opinion or another. Its a bit of a myth that everything is modelled precisely from blueprints etc by even the top developers simply because this isn't always practical or possible even at the highest level when it comes to the graphics, modelling and texture side of development. A lot of the time there simply wont be data/ measurements available for some items and in those cases then other routes to find as realistic a solution as possible may be used such as personal experience, utube videos, photos  etc . I think the system/ coding side of development tend to lean more heavily on data than the graphics side which is where realism depends a lot more an the graphic artists ability to transfer what he sees in to his art work and there in lies the skill that makes them a good artist rather than just a mathematician. 

 

So actually the world of sims as far as the graphics and animations are concerned certainly can rely on opinions and any 3d modeller or graphic artist dev will be able to relate to that. I think a lot of simmers would be amazed to know how much modelling and animation is simply done by eye!

 

nick caldwell

So you know what data we can and can't get? Interesting...

All the same, the point was to say that we don't model or change things simply because someone tosses an opinion out there. Opinions are great, but if no data is presented, even if you're only eyeballing it, then there isn't much to go on.

"In my opinion, you're wrong."
Okay. Great. Thanks for the feedback.

48 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

 

So you know what data we can and can't get? Interesting...

 

as far as graphics and modelling are concerned yep a pretty good idea.  No Matter how well connected one is there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't have data to obtain even if you could access all there is. Even if you did have the Boeing blueprints much will still be modelled by eye simply if for no other reason that the sheer scale of the task of accurately measuring every part of your model wouldn't be feasible In terms of work load/time constraints etc ,   much simply has to be done by eye or photographs.

An example of this would be the exact dimensions of the exterior fuselage in many places very few will have precise measurements and the majority of the time alot will be modelled by eye and from photos blended in to 3dsmax. Its much easier to measure a flight deck internally obviously and even then some parts will still be done by eye despite this, hence the dimensional mistakes that can often be evident in many high end addons ive seen over the years.

nick caldwell

37 minutes ago, nickcaldwell4587 said:

as far as graphics and modelling are concerned yep a pretty good idea.  No Matter how well connected one is there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't have data to obtain even if you could access all there is. Much simply has to be done by eye or photographs.

An example of this would be the exact dimensions of the exterior fuselage in many places very few will have precise measurements and the majority of the time alot will be modelled by eye and from photos blended in to 3dsmax. Its much easier to measure a flight deck internally obviously and even then some parts will still be done by eye despite this, hence the dimensional mistakes that can often be evident in many high end addons ive seen over the years.

nick caldwell

Interesting. Glad we have our own processes and aren't bound by your assumptions.

On 9/22/2017 at 9:43 PM, HighBypass said:

Add-on weather engines can be apocalyptic in nature...

I agree.  Unfortunately, some weather engine addons are still fairly unrealistic and seem to greatly exaggerate the degree of turbulence and/or instantaneous gusts (perhaps by design?), so that the overall effect of flying in bad weather will look and feel more dramatic. The end result is that the aircraft’s wing will sometimes appear to do spectacular ‘gyrations’. Wing flex is based around two primary calculation factors: rigidity and displacement.  If the atmospherics engine behaved "as expected" (read: somewhere close to actual 'real-life' values) then the amount of displacement of the wing and the amount of time it takes to return to the undisturbed position is probably very very close to being accurate. 

I have found that the best way to check this out is to start by testing with a calm wind and CAVOK conditions and see if the wing flexing behaves ‘normally’. Next, try reducing the input settings of any addon WX effects you have until you are happy with the overall appearance of the wing flex in turbulence. This should then hopefully allow the mathematics controlling PMDG’s wing flex to respond "normally" once again. If this doesn’t work for you then all I can suggest the next time your PMDG wing ‘gyrates’ in turbulence is to grin and bear it and follow one airline captain’s advice when he encountered sudden severe turbulence. He was heard to apologise over the PA to his passengers for the "light turbulence" and recommended that they should keep their mouth firmly shut, because he had discovered many years ago that it stopped his own false teeth from rattling!

Bertie Goddard

I know this is old, but just to put in my .2 cents worth here since I introduces wing flexing in fs9/fsx.  At that time I used air speed, and g-force to generate a flex amount that was then used to affect the key animation used in gmax (it's been awhile 😞 ).  I think I did add a counter in the formula that would go up and down between each iteration of the values above to smooth out the animation so it wasn't so jerky.  Erick Cantu also did some magic of his on the wings to attempt to smooth out the animation by breaking up the wing into more sections and limiting the amount of animation used.

Frit