Sign in to follow this  
Boeing or not going

Difference in speeds for -200 and -200ER?

Recommended Posts

I'd like to replicate some 777-200 and 777-200ER flights and fly them in real time so to be as close as possible. Are the cruise speeds, climb and descent different compared to the 777 LR? Thank you - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hey David! There are considerable differences between ALL of the 777 models. Not sure where the resources are online to prove and support this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, coa1117 said:

Wikipedia has a pretty thorough comparison of the 777 models. Scroll down to "Specifications."

They list cruise speed the same, but of course the engines on the LR and the raked wings, and the different weights but I cannot find any differences in climb speeds and descent. I'd think the more thrust in the GE90s would be different speeds but not according to that. - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the only major performance differences between the -200 and the -200LR are MTOW and range. The LR's MTOW is 100,000kg more than the -200, so, yeah, more power is required to get it into the air and keep it there - thus the GE90s. But, my guess is that maximum speed has more to do with airframe tolerances than thrust levels. Whether there are differences in the body/wings of the two variants such that greater maximum speed is supported in the LR is a question beyond my pay grade. :) But, I doubt it. Most likely only a RW T7 pilot, a Boeing engineer or an expert from the PMDG development team can answer this.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2017 at 1:53 PM, coa1117 said:

I believe the only major performance differences between the -200 and the -200LR are MTOW and range. The LR's MTOW is 100,000kg more than the -200, so, yeah, more power is required to get it into the air and keep it there - thus the GE90s. But, my guess is that maximum speed has more to do with airframe tolerances than thrust levels. Whether there are differences in the body/wings of the two variants such that greater maximum speed is supported in the LR is a question beyond my pay grade. :) But, I doubt it. Most likely only a RW T7 pilot, a Boeing engineer or an expert from the PMDG development team can answer this.

It sounds like an odd request, but I am trying to fly in real time many 777 flights, and listening to the liveatc so I am trying to get my speeds correct so I am more or less at the same point as the real airplane. Just trying to get the right speeds for climb cruise and descent but it appears the other 777 models are still around the same as the LR. - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, 777200lrf said:

It sounds like an odd request, but I am trying to fly in real time many 777 flights, and listening to the liveatc so I am trying to get my speeds correct so I am more or less at the same point as the real airplane. Just trying to get the right speeds for climb cruise and descent but it appears the other 777 models are still around the same as the LR. - David Lee

Might be a little difficult since there's a lot of factors that come into play, such as cost index, weight, and what not. Different airlines use different numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2017 at 6:31 PM, 777200lrf said:

I'd like to replicate some 777-200 and 777-200ER flights and fly them in real time so to be as close as possible. Are the cruise speeds, climb and descent different compared to the 777 LR? Thank you - David Lee

I have only flown the 200, because our fleet do not have the 200ER.

 

the -200 cruise likes to cruise at M.82 most of the time with CI60 whereease the LR would have a cruising speed of around .833 similar to the 773ER. 

Descent speed is roughly the same, around .82/280kts in VNAV DES page. 

Average appr speed is falls between 135-140kts.

And the climb performance is worse than 300ER but better than the 300. 

 

However there is is something that cannnot he simulate. The 773ER/772LR actually sits higher on the ground than the original 200, partly due to the requirement for more ground clearance for the bigger engines. 

This has an effect of judging the flare height of the -200 which needs to be slightly less than the 300/300ER.

Which is why sometimes we only begin to flare at 20ft or even 10ft call out when the headwind is strong, otherwise the airplane will be quite happy to just fly level at 10ft over the runway until the end of the pavements. 

 

The other minor difference which cannot be simulated as well is the stick force on rotation for take off is much higher than the heavy 773/773ER/772LR because the Vr speed is much lower on the original 772 (~140kts vs 165-182kts on heavy 773ER/ LR) therefore the elevator is not as effective at a lower speed on the 772. 

 

Other than that I personally love flying the 772, although there aren’t too many of them around now, and soon they will all be gone, the number 1 test airplane which is currently with with Cathay will go back to a Boeing in the near future and will be stored  Museum of Flight.

(Time flies, I feel like it was just yesterday when I saw the first flight happen on TV, but in reality it was already more than 23 years ago) 

 

The -200 feels like a little sports car, very responsive to control inputs and it sits a bit lower on the ground, the suspension is slightly firmer, and it will give you a good “bump” when running over the Taxi lights and runway centerline lights. Basically you get that very solid “mechanical” feedback from the airplane. 

The 773ER on the other hand feels more like a big Lexus GS, you are bit more isolated from the road, very comfortable yet responsive suspension, still fun to fly, but you can certainly feel the weight of the airplane when Taxiing on the ground and maneruvering in the air. 

The 773 though is a base model Camry for that comparison.

(no offense to Camry owners, it’s still an excellent car) 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Driverab330 said:

I have only flown the 200, because our fleet do not have the 200ER.

 

the -200 cruise likes to cruise at M.82 most of the time with CI60 whereease the LR would have a cruising speed of around .833 similar to the 773ER. 

Descent speed is roughly the same, around .82/280kts in VNAV DES page. 

Average appr speed is falls between 135-140kts.

And the climb performance is worse than 300ER but better than the 300. 

 

However there is is something that cannnot he simulate. The 773ER/772LR actually sits higher on the ground than the original 200, partly due to the requirement for more ground clearance for the bigger engines. 

This has an effect of judging the flare height of the -200 which needs to be slightly less than the 300/300ER.

Which is why sometimes we only begin to flare at 20ft or even 10ft call out when the headwind is strong, otherwise the airplane will be quite happy to just fly level at 10ft over the runway until the end of the pavements. 

 

The other minor difference which cannot be simulated as well is the stick force on rotation for take off is much higher than the heavy 773/773ER/772LR because the Vr speed is much lower on the original 772 (~140kts vs 165-182kts on heavy 773ER/ LR) therefore the elevator is not as effective at a lower speed on the 772. 

 

Other than that I personally love flying the 772, although there aren’t too many of them around now, and soon they will all be gone, the number 1 test airplane which is currently with with Cathay will go back to a Boeing in the near future and will be stored  Museum of Flight.

(Time flies, I feel like it was just yesterday when I saw the first flight happen on TV, but in reality it was already more than 23 years ago) 

 

The -200 feels like a little sports car, very responsive to control inputs and it sits a bit lower on the ground, the suspension is slightly firmer, and it will give you a good “bump” when running over the Taxi lights and runway centerline lights. Basically you get that very solid “mechanical” feedback from the airplane. 

The 773ER on the other hand feels more like a big Lexus GS, you are bit more isolated from the road, very comfortable yet responsive suspension, still fun to fly, but you can certainly feel the weight of the airplane when Taxiing on the ground and maneruvering in the air. 

The 773 though is a base model Camry for that comparison.

(no offense to Camry owners, it’s still an excellent car) 

Thank you for that information very interesting  - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this