On 6/21/2018 at 3:02 AM, DrumsArt said:

Thank you Gerald, all seems ok...Found just some little "glitches".

1/The Fo does not say "on final", she just says "Tower + call sign" however the tower answers "clear to land and so.....".

Only "on final" is missing. The downwind and base are ok.

 

I can confirm that VFR pattern reports work fine now basically, both when talking to ATC yourself and with the FO doing ATC.

 

I also noticed that the FO (TTS voice) only says the callsign and not "on final". But I also noticed that with base where "on base" was missing.

 

On 6/21/2018 at 3:02 AM, DrumsArt said:

2/On my side something I had noticed in previous versions with me talking to the tower, if I report "Tower Callsign on base" to the tower, Mce does not understand the sentence (it does not appear at the top left of the screen). Mce understands very well "Tower Callsign on downwind or on final" but not with "on base"...

 

For me most of the times it works fine with every leg, sometimes not. I notice no difference between the legs, sometimes it's not understood, can be any leg. But from time to time that happens with every command.

Maybe MCE just needs some more learning with these new commands...

 

Edited June 28, 20187 yr by RALF9636

18 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Tower, <callsign> (at holding point (runway <xxx>)) (is) ready for departure

where text in () should be optional.

 

 

To give you an idea why "at holding point" without mentioning runway didn't work, I exceptionally list the "Request takeoff" speech rule in its XML format.

  <RULE ID="VID_PFE_Request_Takeoff_Clearance" TOPLEVEL="ACTIVE">

   <RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_ControlRegion"/>

    <OPT MIN="0" MAX="1">
      <RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_Greeting"/>
    </OPT>

    <RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_CallSign"/>

    <OPT MIN="0" MAX="1">
      <P>
        <L>
          <P>at the holding position</P>
          <P>at the holding point</P>
          <P>at the holding area</P>
          <P>at holding position</P>
          <P>at holding point</P>
          <P>at holding area</P>
          <P>holding position</P>
          <P>holding point</P>
          <P>holding area</P>
          <P>holding</P>
          <P>at</P>
        </L>
        <P><RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_RunwayId"/></P>  (The fix would be to make this optional. It's currently required in order to validate the rule).
      </P>
    </OPT>

    <RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_RequestKeyWord"/> (Examples: "Requesting", "Request", "Ready for", "standing by for", etc... etc..

    <L>
      <P>takeoff remain in pattern</P>
      <P>takeoff closed traffic</P>
      <P>takeoff visual circuit</P>
      <P>takeoff runway pattern</P>
      <P>takeoff depart north</P>
      <P>takeoff depart south</P>
      <P>takeoff depart east</P>
      <P>takeoff depart west</P>
      <P>clearance for takeoff</P>
      <P>takeoff clearance VFR</P>
      <P>takeoff clearance IFR</P>
      <P>takeoff clearance</P>
      <P>clearance takeoff</P>
      <P>takeoff IFR</P>
      <P>takeoff VFR</P>
      <P>takeoff</P>
      <P>sequence</P>
      <P>departure</P>
      <P>go</P>
    </L>

    <OPT MIN="0" MAX="1">
      <RULEREF REFID="VID_PFE_RunwayId"/>
    </OPT>

  </RULE>

Ideally, a trained real world pilot shouldn't have to read the documentation. The speech rules should ensure 95%+ real world verbiage variations are caught.

That's why feedback is important. Report any spoken messages that appear to fail after a couple of attempts.

If they are valid ATC jargon, we'll ensure the speech grammar has them covered.

 

Thanks for the interesting insight.

 

Btw isn't the term "takeoff" strictly forbidden in ATC jargon as long as it is not in "cleared for takeoff" (as a result of the Tenerife desaster)?

 

On 6/26/2018 at 11:35 PM, RALF9636 said:

After several flights and multiple attempts with different phrases I found that only one sentence always was recognized properly:

 

"Tower, <callsign> at holding point runway <runway number> is ready for departure".

 

"is" is essential here. Without the "is" it is recognized as a request for a different runway. Also other variations were not successful for me. When leaving out the runway number it also wasn't recognized most of the time.

 

Without wanting to cause confusion, for me the sentence:

"Tower, Callsign, at holding point, ready for take off or Departure" works perfectly. (Tested less than two minutes ago). I don't need to add "runway" or "is"....Curious !

 

 

8 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

I also noticed that the FO (TTS voice) only says the callsign and not "on final". But I also noticed that with base where "on base" was missing.

 

Yes, you're right, the FO (TTS voice) only says the callsign and not "on final" and not "on base" since I installed the last update (4files).

Regards,

 

In addition to the "small" problems related to words missing from the FO sentence (On final...and so on), I also noted especially in VFR flight :

1/After being transferred to the approach, the approach usually gives a new transponder code. In this case the FO never acknowledges receipt, never....

2/During the final pattern the FO never acknowledges the messages from the tower (Report on downwind, on base, on final...). Is this normal procedure?

Thank you and Regards,

9 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

In addition to the "small" problems related to words missing from the FO sentence (On final...and so on), I also noted especially in VFR flight :

1/After being transferred to the approach, the approach usually gives a new transponder code. In this case the FO never acknowledges receipt, never....

2/During the final pattern the FO never acknowledges the messages from the tower (Report on downwind, on base, on final...). Is this normal procedure?

Thank you and Regards,

When Fo has the COMMs, his replies are totally dependent on the received captions.

Assuming you have option "Active=1" in "PF3_MCE.ini", Open the "Clearance.log" and post whatever message was intended to you that Fo failed to handle.

 

Edited June 29, 20187 yr by FS++

Error sorry, Mods please delete. Thank you.

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by DrumsArt

16 hours ago, FS++ said:

When Fo has the COMMs, his replies are totally dependent on the received captions.

Assuming you have option "Active=1" in "PF3_MCE.ini", Open the "Clearance.log" and post whatever message was intended to you that Fo failed to handle.

 

Messages not acknowledged by FO (from the  "Clearance.log") are :

Lancair November 3 Delta Echo Squawk 3535

November 3 Delta Echo Contact Tower on 118.75  Radar service terminated. Squawk 1200

(for this one I guess this is normal because the "Lancair" word is missing, for this same reason this message does not appear either in the PF3_Display program. It concerns PF3, not MCE I guess. I'll report that in the PF3 forum).

Lancair November 3 Delta Echo Winds 110 at 9 Altimeter is 2976 report entering the pattern for runway 7 Left

Roger Lancair November 3 Delta Echo report turning base

Lancair November 3 Delta Echo report turning final

Thank you and Regards,

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by DrumsArt

Here is one more small issue with the FO in "You have ATC"-mode:

 

After landing PF3-ATC calls "exit runway ... contact ground when clear of the active runway". The FO copies that properly and changes to Ground frequency. But then something is going wrong. He does not always contact Ground for taxi to parking. Sometimes he does, sometimes he does not. I haven't figuered out yet what is the trigger for him to contact Ground.

If he does not and I say "request taxi to parking" he performs that, but then does not reply to the taxi clearance unless I tell him "reply to ATC". And it happens that some time after that the FO finally requests taxi again, autonomously this time (triggered by?). I cannot stop him from doing so even if I say "I have ATC" after the taxi clearance.

So something must be going wrong with the trigger for the FO to contact Ground. What is this trigger supposed to be?

I would suggest a groundspeed of less than 10 kts as a trigger.

And if I force the taxi request he should not ask again later of course.

 

1 hour ago, RALF9636 said:

Here is one more small issue with the FO in "You have ATC"-mode:

 

After landing PF3-ATC calls "exit runway ... contact ground when clear of the active runway". The FO copies that properly and changes to Ground frequency. But then something is going wrong. He does not always contact Ground for taxi to parking. Sometimes he does, sometimes he does not. I haven't figuered out yet what is the trigger for him to contact Ground.

If he does not and I say "request taxi to parking" he performs that, but then does not reply to the taxi clearance unless I tell him "reply to ATC". And it happens that some time after that the FO finally requests taxi again, autonomously this time (triggered by?). I cannot stop him from doing so even if I say "I have ATC" after the taxi clearance.

So something must be going wrong with the trigger for the FO to contact Ground. What is this trigger supposed to be?

I would suggest a groundspeed of less than 10 kts as a trigger.

And if I force the taxi request he should not ask again later of course.

 

Yep noticed that also...I wonder if it's not more related to a particular point about airports. Indeed on some airports MCE does the job as soon as the runway overrun. On the other hand, on others, MCE triggers its routine much further down the taxiway.

Regards,

Edited July 5, 20187 yr by DrumsArt

12 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Here is one more small issue with the FO in "You have ATC"-mode:

 

After landing PF3-ATC calls "exit runway ... contact ground when clear of the active runway". The FO copies that properly and changes to Ground frequency. But then something is going wrong. He does not always contact Ground for taxi to parking. Sometimes he does, sometimes he does not. I haven't figuered out yet what is the trigger for him to contact Ground.

If he does not and I say "request taxi to parking" he performs that, but then does not reply to the taxi clearance unless I tell him "reply to ATC". And it happens that some time after that the FO finally requests taxi again, autonomously this time (triggered by?). I cannot stop him from doing so even if I say "I have ATC" after the taxi clearance.

So something must be going wrong with the trigger for the FO to contact Ground. What is this trigger supposed to be?

I would suggest a groundspeed of less than 10 kts as a trigger.

And if I force the taxi request he should not ask again later of course.

 

As per current implementation, FO establishes contact within 2 minutes after landing, provided the heading has changed by at least 35 degrees since landing (assumes leaving the runway). 

This means, if you are leaving the runway in such a manner that the heading doesn't exceed that limit, Fo will think you're still on the runway. Could be reduced to 30 or 25. But then if you make violent oscillations on landing, Fo is likely to report leaving the runway too soon.

In this respect, DrumsArt is right in noticing it depends where you land.

But got the point regarding FO transmitting even though you already did. He should take that into account.

9 hours ago, FS++ said:

As per current implementation, FO establishes contact within 2 minutes after landing, provided the heading has changed by at least 35 degrees since landing (assumes leaving the runway). 

Could you be a little clearer on how it is supposed to work.

Does the FO make contact as soon as the heading differs 35 degrees? Or at a random time within two minutes if the heading differs at least 35 degrees at that moment (or at any time before)?

 

36 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Could you be a little clearer on how it is supposed to work.

Does the FO make contact as soon as the heading differs 35 degrees? Or at a random time within two minutes if the heading differs at least 35 degrees at that moment (or at any time before)?

 

Once you land, Fo will keep checking whether heading has differed by more than 35 degrees since you landed (reference heading being the one recorded on impact) for the next 2 minutes.

If it has changed anytime, acknowledgment happens.

When that 2 minutes is up, he'll acknowledge clear of the runway anyway.

In next update, he'll also make sure you didn't reply yourself.

 

13 minutes ago, FS++ said:

Once you land, Fo will keep checking whether heading has differed by more than 35 degrees since you landed (reference heading being the one recorded on impact) for the next 2 minutes.

If it has changed anytime, acknowledgment happens.

When that 2 minutes is up, he'll acknowledge clear of the runway anyway.

In next update, he'll also make sure you didn't reply yourself.

 

 

Thanks. I'm not sure if it really worked this way for me everytime but my memory might deceive me. I will keep an eye on that and report back if necessary.

Would you please also make sure that the FO does not make contact if I said "I have ATC " before.