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dores893

Some issues with P3Dv4 in the 777

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Hello!

I've been flying the PMDG 777 in VATSIM for a few years on P3DV3.  I finally made the plunge into P3DV4, and I am happy to do it.  However, it has involved reinstalling all of my PMDG aircraft.  Last week, I took the NGX for a short hop with no issues.  Tonight was my first night on the Panda, taking the 777 from KMEM to KTYS.  The Panda and I have been all over the world on V3, but she did a few things tonight in V4 that she has a never done before.  I think they are worth mentioning:

1.  Setting the transponder to transmit (clockwise to the far right) in the sim did not set VPilot to Mode Charlie (as it always did in V3).  I had to do this manually (not the end of the world but one of the "unique" things about PMDG aircraft).

2.  Tuning in to KTYS ATIS caused VPilot to consistently disconnect (no other ATIS channels had any issues, but is definitely something I've never seen before).

3.  The Autopilot Disconnect warning would not stop blaring no matter what I did even after I cleared the runway unless I turned the autopilot back on.  The controllers set me up rather high and fast for final so I disconnected earlier than I usually do.  I also did this by taking the yoke (as opposed to manually hitting the AP disconnect and manually turning off auto throttle).  It didn't affect my landing, but it sure was annoying, especially when I was trying to talk to Ground.  I'm not sure if this was a P3D issue or a sequence of events issue on my part, but it was a first so I'm reporting it.  Note that this did not occur in the NGX following the same yoke to autopilot disconnect routine.  Perhaps I missed a setting when setting up the aircraft specific options, but hitting the master alarm should have shut off the warning.

I'm going to take up the 747 tomorrow, which I am really looking forward to in 64 bits. 

Thanks!

Jimmy

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24 minutes ago, dores893 said:

Hello!

I've been flying the PMDG 777 in VATSIM for a few years on P3DV3.  I finally made the plunge into P3DV4, and I am happy to do it.  However, it has involved reinstalling all of my PMDG aircraft.  Last week, I took the NGX for a short hop with no issues.  Tonight was my first night on the Panda, taking the 777 from KMEM to KTYS.  The Panda and I have been all over the world on V3, but she did a few things tonight in V4 that she has a never done before.  I think they are worth mentioning:

1.  Setting the transponder to transmit (clockwise to the far right) in the sim did not set VPilot to Mode Charlie (as it always did in V3).  I had to do this manually (not the end of the world but one of the "unique" things about PMDG aircraft).

2.  Tuning in to KTYS ATIS caused VPilot to consistently disconnect (no other ATIS channels had any issues, but is definitely something I've never seen before).

3.  The Autopilot Disconnect warning would not stop blaring no matter what I did even after I cleared the runway unless I turned the autopilot back on.  The controllers set me up rather high and fast for final so I disconnected earlier than I usually do.  I also did this by taking the yoke (as opposed to manually hitting the AP disconnect and manually turning off auto throttle).  It didn't affect my landing, but it sure was annoying, especially when I was trying to talk to Ground.  I'm not sure if this was a P3D issue or a sequence of events issue on my part, but it was a first so I'm reporting it.  Note that this did not occur in the NGX following the same yoke to autopilot disconnect routine.  Perhaps I missed a setting when setting up the aircraft specific options, but hitting the master alarm should have shut off the warning.

I'm going to take up the 747 tomorrow, which I am really looking forward to in 64 bits. 

Thanks!

Jimmy

Jimmy,

 

1 and 2 working fine here with P3Dv4. Might be worth reinstalling viplot?

 

Regarding the wailer. Did you press again the A/P disconnect button? One press disengages the A/P second press silences the sound.

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I did press the A/P disengage button, even though it was already disengaged though the yoke.  I don't know if I pressed it twice.  I suppose I will see if I can repeat any of the above mentioned issues.  

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I remember on the NGX that pressing the master caution always shuts it up, so I'm pretty sure that's what I went for first.

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I did another flight today.  The wailer has the same issues, as did Mode Charlie, even after reinstalling Vpilot.  I then tried to load the QOTS2, and it wouldn't even load.  CTD 100% of the time.  I reinstalled both aircraft without any resolution.  I guess I will have to fly those tube liners in V3.  At least the NGX works in V4.  

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12 hours ago, dores893 said:

1.  Setting the transponder to transmit (clockwise to the far right) in the sim did not set VPilot to Mode Charlie (as it always did in V3).  I had to do this manually (not the end of the world but one of the "unique" things about PMDG aircraft).

Need to run both vPilot and the Sim as an admin.

12 hours ago, dores893 said:

2.  Tuning in to KTYS ATIS caused VPilot to consistently disconnect (no other ATIS channels had any issues, but is definitely something I've never seen before).

Probably related to the above, but odd issues with vPilot really aren't PMDG issues. vPilot is reading the active freq in the sim, not anything 777-related.

12 hours ago, dores893 said:

3.  The Autopilot Disconnect warning would not stop blaring no matter what I did even after I cleared the runway unless I turned the autopilot back on.  The controllers set me up rather high and fast for final so I disconnected earlier than I usually do.  I also did this by taking the yoke (as opposed to manually hitting the AP disconnect and manually turning off auto throttle).  It didn't affect my landing, but it sure was annoying, especially when I was trying to talk to Ground.  I'm not sure if this was a P3D issue or a sequence of events issue on my part, but it was a first so I'm reporting it.  Note that this did not occur in the NGX following the same yoke to autopilot disconnect routine.  Perhaps I missed a setting when setting up the aircraft specific options, but hitting the master alarm should have shut off the warning.

Read the Intro Manual, please. There's a specific note in there about the proper way to disconnect the AP (it's the same way as in the NGX, if done properly).

Press the AP disco button (key command, or joystick button tied to a key command) once, wait a couple seconds, and then press again.

53 minutes ago, dores893 said:

I did another flight today.  The wailer has the same issues, as did Mode Charlie, even after reinstalling Vpilot.  I then tried to load the QOTS2, and it wouldn't even load.  CTD 100% of the time.  I reinstalled both aircraft without any resolution.  I guess I will have to fly those tube liners in V3.  At least the NGX works in V4.  

Not necessarily true...

The wailer doesn't have an issue - your procedure does.

Mode C doesn't have an issue - your proper setup of the applications does.

The 744 had an issue in the latest P3D version because of an LM issue, which was corrected with an update, so - your version may be out of date, and causing the issue.

Reinstalling the aircraft usually fixes nothing. In this case, it will not: correct your AP disco procedure to the proper way; correct vPilot's or the sim's run permissions; and it will actually remove the latest version of the 744 had you updated to it (until you open the OC and re-update it). So, with this in mind, it's best to avoid reinstalls unless a support staff member directs you to try that method.

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6 minutes ago, dores893 said:

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

No, and projection isn't only a method by which you can put a movie on a wall.

Since you're pushing back and causing your own issues, I'll do the leg work for you...you can thank me later...

  1. vPilot does not directly connect to the aircraft. It connects with the sim. This is why it is compatible with any aircraft using the proper methods of interacting with the sim. In other words, all default aircraft, and just about any add-on aircraft are compatible because they adjust the sim variables. This isn't a direct connection between vPilot and the plane - if it were, it would require each and every developer to specifically integrate vPilot in, and/or vice versa, which would be a headache for both parties. You're welcome to ask this of Ross Carlson if you'd like. He's not reading any aircraft directly. The NGX's and the 777's methods vary slightly, which is why you're seeing different behavior, but it's a permissions issue between vPIlot not being run as an admin, and the sim not being run as an admin. Works on my machine. Works on Xhristos' machine (as he reported), and if you look at Vataware, you can see a number of our 777s on there. If it were a widespread issue, you'd see more reports and you don't.
  2. See the above information about how vPilot works. If you don't believe me, go talk to Ross. He has forum for all of his products.
     
  3. The proper way to disco the AP is to:
    -Press the AP DISCONNECT button (it's on the yoke, but set up a key command unless you want to mouse click the thing)
    -Wait 2 or more seconds
    -Press the AP DISCONNECT button again

    Why?
    -Not at all related to denial - entirely a human factors issue, from a few fatal crashes back in the 80s and 90s (references available upon request - AFL593 to start)
    -A single press of the button could be accidental, as could a yoke override action dropping you out of AP control (see above).
    -To confirm that the single press wasn't accidental, a second press is necessary to say "yes, that was intentional."
    -In the act of confirming that the press was intentional, it also silences the alarm.

    To make this easier on you:
    -Assign a key command in CD MENU > PMDG SETUP > KEY COMMANDS > AUTOFLIGHT > A/P DISCONNECT
    -Assign this to your hardware via whatever hardware setup tool you use (I'd recommend the one that came with your hardware, mine is Saitek's program), or you can just hit the key command on your own - up to you.

    NOTE:
    As I wrote in the Intro Manual, hitting the master caution is not only the improper way to silence the wailer, it may also not work, depending on the airline options selected. See the Intro Manual's description of the option regarding the master caution silencing press.

 

 

Instead of being snarky about things, you may want to stop, think, evaluate, and possible take in the advice people are handing you. You're literally standing in your own way right now, simply to feel like you're correct about a few things that you're in over your head about, and one that is an acknowledged issue on LM's side that we have provided an update/workaround for until they can address it. This is confirmed by LM, which, in addition to the above information completely addresses all of your assertions (improper, I might remind you), that my post had any denial in it.

So...perhaps you might want to be a little less pointed next time, and properly research a bit.

There's a famous Abe Lincoln quote that comes to mind...

 

You're welcome to resolve your issues using the information that I have just provided, or we can continue to argue about problems that are not related to the 777 or 744 (no denial here - simply facts), as you get in your own way of using them in the sim I'm sure you'd like to use them in. Up to you.

Your move.

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Let me restate my post in the hope that common sense will prevail.

1.  I've been flying the NGX on VATSIM for three years in V3 without issue.

2.  I've been flying the 777 for at least two years on VATSIM in V3 without issue.

3.  I've been flying the QTS2 on VATSIM in V3 at soon as it came out without issue.

This has nothing to do with procedures, the manual, or Vpilot.  Your code is bugged.  I'm pointing these issues out to PMDG as a courtesy.  I'll check back in six months to see if you have made any progress.  If not, I'll continue to fly all three aircraft correctly in V3.

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9 minutes ago, dores893 said:

Let me restate my post in the hope that common sense will prevail.

1.  I've been flying the NGX on VATSIM for three years in V3 without issue.

2.  I've been flying the 777 for at least two years on VATSIM in V3 without issue.

3.  I've been flying the QTS2 on VATSIM in V3 at soon as it came out without issue.

This has nothing to do with procedures, the manual, or Vpilot.  Your code is bugged.  I'm pointing these issues out to PMDG as a courtesy.  I'll check back in six months to see if you have made any progress.  If not, I'll continue to fly all three aircraft correctly in V3.

The flaw in your "common sense," though, is that you're basing all of this on...well...flawed logic.

So...let's go back to the deep end, since you're seemingly anxious to spend your time swimming in waters above your head, in realms in which you have no knowledge.

Points 1, 2, and 3: All blown out of the deepest water of the deep end by the - fact - that the code driving our aircraft in v3 is the same exact code driving the aircraft in v4 (the sim variables are also the same, which you would also know if you had any coding background to be in a position to even try to make the baseless assertion that you just did). This is blown further out of the water in that my, Xhristos', and a horde of aircraft flying on VATSIM - right now - are working properly. If it were the code, then my aircraft, Xhristos' aircraft, and everyone on VATSIM would be having issues with the 777. This isn't the case. This is a fact, whereas your assertion that it is our code is just that - an assertion - and not even one backed by those pesky things called facts.

Little bit of common sense scientific method for you:

Situation A:
PMDG Aircraft + vPilot + P3Dv3 = Success

Situation B:
PMDG Aircraft + vPilot + P3Dv4 = Failure

Common Sense According to Scientific Method:
Change in result is found in the change in the variable. Which variable changed? P3Dv3 -> P3Dv4, ergo the cause of the failure will be found in that changed variable.

 

 

So again, in order to appear correct - in the face of facts - you're going to stubbornly sit on the sidelines and ask us to fix something that isn't something we can (or need) to fix. All you need to do is literally the following: right click the vPilot icon > Run as Admin; right click the P3Dv4 icon > Run as Admin. Done.

If you'd like to not listen to the fixes we've provided you, then that is your choice. At this point, however, you have reached the end of my provisions of support, because it is now clear that you are not here to seek support - you are here in an attempt to point a finger, and sling mud. The trouble, however, is that you have no backing in statistics or facts to support any of that fingerpointing and mudslinging.

When you're ready to quit digging, and have tried what we've suggested, please let us know. Until that point, I think anyone who passes by this thread will be able to see where the issue actually rests.

...while they also fly on VATSIM with vPilot without issue, I might add.

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I don't believe you have the capacity to provide support.  Your ego is too closely attached to your product to listen to the customer. "It can't be me so it must be you."  Is this how to you talk to people at Boeing??  I've never seen such unprofessional behavior from a developer.  

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Nothing suggested above appears to be close to the actual fix, so I wanted to let on how I fixed some but not all of the issues:

Firstly, mostly everything related to the PMDG products can be fined tuned in the Operations Center. 

1.  For the wailer on the 777, go to the appropriate livery (and sim version) and go into aircraft specific settings and then to warnings.  Then you can select single or double press on the autopilot and how you wish to reset the master caution. 

2.  For the 747, simply install all the updates requested in the notification center.  

3.  Regarding Mode Charlie in vPilot and P3dV4, this is an issue between the two programs.  None of the PMDG aircraft in V4 can make vPilot squawk Mode Charlie like they can in V3.  I didn't check Ident.

Now, was that so difficult?

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1 hour ago, dores893 said:

1.  For the wailer on the 777, go to the appropriate livery (and sim version) and go into aircraft specific settings and then to warnings.  Then you can select single or double press on the autopilot and how you wish to reset the master caution. 

Remind me again what the exact issue was, because I just read the entire thread, and I'm confused now.

1 hour ago, dores893 said:

2.  For the 747, simply install all the updates requested in the notification center.  

I don't know why you wouldn't have done this in the first place.

1 hour ago, dores893 said:

3.  Regarding Mode Charlie in vPilot and P3dV4, this is an issue between the two programs.  None of the PMDG aircraft in V4 can make vPilot squawk Mode Charlie like they can in V3.  I didn't check Ident.

Huh? I've been flying the Boeing 747-400 in P3D V4 with vPilot since I started running P3D V4, and I haven't run into any issues whatsoever. Want proof? Here you go. If there were any issues, I'm sure I would have heard about it from the controller.

 

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Posted (edited)

Air Kevin. LMFAO  As far as the last issue goes, it can be done (telling Vpilot to squawk mode Charlie inside the cockpit) in V4, just not in PMDG aircraft.  Digital Aviation's CRJ does it that was just released for V4.  Maybe you should check your Vpilot settings Kevin, because you might have Mode Charlie set to automatically go on at takeoff. 

Edited by dores893

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1 hour ago, dores893 said:

Air Kevin. LMFAO  As far as the last issue goes, it can be done (telling Vpilot to squawk mode Charlie inside the cockpit) in V4, just not in PMDG aircraft.  Digital Aviation's CRJ does it that was just released for V4.  Maybe you should check your Vpilot settings Kevin, because you might have Mode Charlie set to automatically go on at takeoff. 

So you solved the wailer "issue" by doing what the introduction manual is saying. The 744 by updating as Kyle said

You keep saying that is not your problem but it is. Three people in here we told you that it is working OK on P3Dv4. Our complete BETA and Tech teams they are not seeing it. People flying in Vatsim do not see it. How again is this our problem?

Also please sign your real name, first and last at your spots as per forum rules

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16 hours ago, dores893 said:

I don't believe you have the capacity to provide support.  Your ego is too closely attached to your product to listen to the customer. "It can't be me so it must be you."  Is this how to you talk to people at Boeing??  I've never seen such unprofessional behavior from a developer.  

It literally has nothing to do with ego. I'm providing facts, which you are ignoring. The only ego in this discussion is the one refusing to acknowledge facts in light of avoiding damaging the aforementioned ego. You've got me, Xhristos', and now another user with evidence to support the actual condition. The only thing that would have someone ignore those facts would be ego, and you'll note that I'm siding with the facts, so the ego issue is located somewhere else.

14 hours ago, dores893 said:

Nothing suggested above appears to be close to the actual fix, so I wanted to let on how I fixed some but not all of the issues:

Firstly, mostly everything related to the PMDG products can be fined tuned in the Operations Center. 

1.  For the wailer on the 777, go to the appropriate livery (and sim version) and go into aircraft specific settings and then to warnings.  Then you can select single or double press on the autopilot and how you wish to reset the master caution. 

2.  For the 747, simply install all the updates requested in the notification center.  

3.  Regarding Mode Charlie in vPilot and P3dV4, this is an issue between the two programs.  None of the PMDG aircraft in V4 can make vPilot squawk Mode Charlie like they can in V3.  I didn't check Ident.

Now, was that so difficult?

I think this is a question that you may want to ask yourself, as I provided you the answers to all of this rather early on, and you decided to point fingers saying that the code was wrong instead of actually trying them.

...interestingly enough you still have them partially incorrect here:

1. This option is a workaround for those who don't wish to use the proper method of disengaging the AP - i.e. the way you would do so in the actual plane, out in the real world. As I also mentioned earlier, the master caution silence on press is not a proper way to address the issue you're seeing. Yes, it silences the alarm after you disengage the AP, but it's not meant to be at all related to AP disengagement, as much as it's an option for being able to silence any sort of master caution alarm by pressing that button. Yes - it works. It is not the proper way, however, and that proper way will work regardless of that option setting. That option, for what it's worth, is a real world option. A crew in the real world wouldn't be able to rip through a bunch of config panels to change that setting to press the master caution button to shut the alarm up. Rather, they would simply do what I've been telling you since I entered this thread: hit AP DISCO - wait - hit AP DISCO again. Done. You are literally making a mountain out of an ant hill here.

2. Yes. Something solved by something I suggested. Imagine if you'd been doing that this whole time.

3. I don't see any evidence provided to support your claim. Did you try running both as an admin as I've been suggesting? I also find it interesting (though not at all surprising, given the way in which you've engaged literally every single person other than yourself in this thread) that you've immediately dismissed Kevin's videos by asserting (without evidence, as his config screens are never present in his videos) that he has an option set that would conveniently support your assertion. You're not wrong: he could have this option set, but, my key issue with this discussion is that you walked in here with all of this "solved" in your head: this is how I see it, this is how it must be - it cannot be any other way.

...and when I suggested that you are the cause of some/all of the issues you reported, instead of taking the rational approach of checking to see if that was the case, the ego defense walls went up, and I got responses filled with ad hom, instead of "okay, let me check some of those things and get back to you." So, we're now several more responses deeper into this thread than we would have otherwise needed to be.

 

 

Here's the kicker:
I'm not opposed, and I'm willing to bet that Xhristos is not opposed (actually, no, seeing his email and bug reporting traffic, I know he's not opposed) to going to the team and saying "hey - looks like there's an issue here, so please address."

...but when your computer says "the world is round," and Xhristos' computer says "the world is round," and Kevin's computer is seemingly saying "the world is round," and there's a lack of tickets suggesting otherwise, I'm not going to suddenly believe the world is flat because one person in the forum showed up, provided no evidence, ignored suggestions on how to fix the issue, and fired up a barrage of ad hominem attacks in place of rationally accepting the support that had been provided...and said "the world is flat" and on top of that "you're in denial, you need to keep your ego in check, and [insert various other unrelated issues to the facts at hand]."

You want to attack me and call me names, that's fine. If you think I'm a jerk, that's fine.

...but the facts are the facts.

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I didn't bother hooking up my mic for this, but, here's a quick video:

Note that the sim (as shown in the title bar) is P3Dv4. The aircraft is the 777. The client is vPilot.

 

 

I will - in an effort to be moderately helpful - remind you that when you install a new version of a simulator, you also need to update your version of FSUIPC. This is not a PMDG requirement, as much as it is a vPilot one (the vPilot docs state "Reads transponder mode from FSX if the aircraft supports the SquawkBox FSUIPC offsets" - we are setting this, as you can see in the fact that it's working in v3 for you, but since your v4 install might not have FSUIPC installed, the offset cannot be set, and therefore read).

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vPilot - 2.1.5 - Released 2017-06-01 ==================================== - 0002622: Add support for detecting P3D V4.

 

Just a hint...

 

(works fine here too, btw... But I was nasty enough to run everything as admin, so.. sry about that.)

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On 5/22/2018 at 12:00 AM, dores893 said:

Air Kevin. LMFAO

Not really sure what's so funny. The nice thing about flight simulators is you can do pretty much whatever you want. I take it you find every other virtual airline out there funny? For what it's worth, I've had this airline around since 2003.

On 5/22/2018 at 12:00 AM, dores893 said:

it can be done (telling Vpilot to squawk mode Charlie inside the cockpit) in V4, just not in PMDG aircraft.

So what you're telling me is that the fact that it works on my end is just my imagination. Got it. Like I said, if there was an issue, I would have heard about it from the air traffic controllers, and as evidenced by two videos, I didn't. Need more proof? Here you go. Start from 5:48:30. I talked to several controllers at this point, so if there were any issues, I'm sure one of them would have said something.

On 5/22/2018 at 12:00 AM, dores893 said:

Maybe you should check your Vpilot settings Kevin, because you might have Mode Charlie set to automatically go on at takeoff. 

I don't, that much I know.

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Posted (edited)

Guys he is an word not allowed let's say person. Don't bother. 

I like the most when he complains that V4 broke stuff with the AP disc, while he was simply to mmh "unwise" to remember the settings (HE changed in V3). 

On 5/22/2018 at 3:33 PM, scandinavian13 said:

...but the facts are the facts.

But... But... Facts are so oppressive. 

(Snowflakes don't like facts)

Edited by 30K
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On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:35 PM, dores893 said:

I've been flying the PMDG 777 in VATSIM for a few years on P3DV3.

Well Jimmy,

I just don't know what to say since I've never owned V3, but I have been running V4 since it was released.  I started using vPilot since it was released with out any problems.  I just looked at my logs and I have almost 1,000 hours on the PMDG B777/747 on VATSIM using P3Dv4 without any issues.  As I've said before it is certainly possible that I am doing something wrong. 🙂

 

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