New build for P3D

[Guest]

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

Just to add... But only on one core. And only if one core is active. As soon as there's any activity at all on any of the other cores  max turbo frequency drops.

I believe 8700K and 8086K use Intel Turbo Boost 2.0: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html

" allowing processor cores to run faster than the rated operating frequency if they’re operating below power, current, and temperature specification limits. Whether the processor enters into Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 and the amount of time the processor spends in that state depends on the workload and operating environment."

The Intel documentation doesn't specify any hard limit for each core other than max, only:

• Type of workload
• Number of active cores
• Estimated current consumption
• Estimated power consumption
• Processor temperature

In my test PC with a 8700K the frequency across all cores with P3D running has always been at or close to max 4.7 (4.5 to 4.7 range on all cores HT enabled - water cooled).

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, Jim Young said:

When I run P3D, all cores are active.  How do you make it run on just one core?  Thanks for your help!

 

That's nothing to do with what I was talking about Jim. I was referring to Intel Turbo Boost, and how it will only clock ONE core to the max Turbo Boost frequency. (5 GHz for the 8086K)

I was also talking about, as I have said a number of times, that if P3D or any application utilises more than one core of your CPU (which you confirm it does) that when more then one core is active, the Turbo Boost frequency will be lower on those cores. I have already posted the frequencies with more than one core active.

The point, is that when P3D or any application is utilising greater than ONE core, you wont get the max Turbo Boost frequency of 5 GHz for the 8086K, or 4.7 GHz for the 8700K. 

[martin-w 3,235]

1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I believe 8700K and 8086K use Intel Turbo Boost 2.0: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html

" allowing processor cores to run faster than the rated operating frequency if they’re operating below power, current, and temperature specification limits. Whether the processor enters into Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 and the amount of time the processor spends in that state depends on the workload and operating environment."

The Intel documentation doesn't specify any hard limit for each core other than max, only:

• Type of workload
• Number of active cores
• Estimated current consumption
• Estimated power consumption
• Processor temperature

In my test PC with a 8700K the frequency across all cores with P3D running has always been at or close to max 4.7 (4.5 to 4.7 range on all cores HT enabled - water cooled).

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

 

 

The frequencies for Turbo Boost with the 8086K are below Rob. Turbo Boost has always worked this way, it has never boosted all cores to the max turbo frequency and never when more than one core is active, as far as I know.

 

Half way down the page.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12945/the-intel-core-i7-8086k-review

 

https://techreport.com/review/33786/intel-core-i7-8086k-cpu-reviewed

 

8700K

One core active - 4.7 GHz

Two cores active - GHz 4.6

Three cores active - 4.5 GHz

Four cores active  - 4.4 GHz

Five cores active - 4.4  GHz

Six cores active - 4.3 GHz 

 

8086K

One core active - 5.0 GHz

Two cores active - GHz 4.6

Three cores active - 4.5 GHz

Four cores active  - 4.4 GHz

Five cores active - 4.4  GHz

Six cores active - 4.3 GHz 

 

So essentially all Intel have done is take a better binned 8700K and boost the single core Turbo by 300 MHz. All other cores clock the same. Intel these days are very tight lipped about Turbo frequencies for new chips. So we don't find out till the reviewers get them. 

 

Quote

 

So how did Intel get to that 5 GHz figure? Simple: Turbo Boost 2.0 relies in part on an "n-cores-active" heuristic. Put simply, fewer active cores mean the highest clocks from Turbo Boost's multi-variate frequency-scaling management. Each chip has a number of Turbo bins equal to the number of cores on the die.

With one core active, the Coffee Lake Core i7-8700K that the i7-8086K is derived from can boost all the way up to 4.7 GHz. The Core i7-8086K's top Turbo bin is 5 GHz. Once you get outside those numbers, the i7-8700K and i7-8086K are identical. Scuttlebutt had suggested the i7-8086K might have a more aggressive Turbo table across the board, but that's not the case. That fact makes sense, of course, given that the chip's TDP remained the same as its less-special sibling's.

 

 

 

As you can see from the above, with two cores active max turbo is 4.6 for the 8086K not 5 GHz. With three active it's 4.5 GHz. And if at any time the application is active on all cores max frequency is a mere 4.3 GHz.

This is precisely why Asus and other board manufactures developed MCE (Multi Core Enhancement) because they figured that if you were buying such a CPU, and one of their top of the range motherboards, you would likely desire the max Turbo frequency on all cores.

In fact their was a bit of a scandal a while ago when Coffee Lake was released, because reviewers were getting Z370 boards that had MCE on by default, and in some cases locked on. This was skewing many of the reviews in favour of Coffee Lake. MCE is now off by default.

So my advice if you desire max turbo frequency on all cores (but don't wish to manually overclock) is to switch on MCE in the UEFI. Goes without saying that decent cooling will be required, as in effect, MCE is a decent overclock.  That will be a voltage as defined by Asus (or other board manufactures) auto rules. So tweaking voltage down would be feasible.

 

Quote

In my test PC with a 8700K the frequency across all cores with P3D running has always been at or close to max 4.7 (4.5 to 4.7 range on all cores HT enabled - water cooled).

 

 

4.5 GHz would be with three cores active for 8700K's Turbo Boost. So looks like P3D is hovering between one and three cores. I would think there would be occasions when more than that are active though, thus lower frequency.

Switch on MCE I say, and see max turbo on all cores. Not an issue re cooling for you as you have a top-notch custom loop. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by martin-w

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

Sharing just my experience, Jim:

I'm  assuming you have the latest version of Hardware Monitior; cant you just verify for us what frequency your cores are running at altitude. I say altitude because on my system P3D v4 is running at 5 GHZ on all 6 cores at full steam ahead.

Edited June 19, 2018 by FunknNasty

[westman 257]

If you run Asus mobo , if Asus multicore enhancement is set to default auto it not boost at Intels settings until you disable it.

Thats all , my Eng is to bad to get in some deep discussions.

Edited June 19, 2018 by westman

[martin-w 3,235]

14 hours ago, FunknNasty said:

Sharing just my experience, Jim:

I'm  assuming you have the latest version of Hardware Monitior; cant you just verify for us what frequency your cores are running at altitude. I say altitude because on my system P3D v4 is running at 5 GHZ on all 6 cores at full steam ahead.

 

If all cores are active, and you see 5 GHz on all cores, then you have either manually overclocked, or have MCE on in the BIOS. Because Intel Turbo Boost will drop back to the lowest frequency when all cores are active.

Often people have MCE on, because when they set their RAM XMP profile a box pops up and asks them, if they hit yes, MCE is on. Often they hit on and don't realise.

 I have just tested my 8700K, with MCE off, so Intel Turbo Boost active, running RealBence or Cinemench, all cores active and in accordance with Turbo Boost drops all cores to 4.3 MHz

Edited June 20, 2018 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,235]

14 hours ago, westman said:

If you run Asus mobo , if Asus multicore enhancement is set to default auto it not boost at Intels settings until you disable it.

Thats all , my Eng is to bad to get in some deep discussions.

 

Is that still the case though Hasse. I thought BIOS updates had changed that. MCE set to Auto defaulted to on, but I thought it now defaulted to off, unless you select yes when you set your XMP profile, via the MCE pop up box?

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by martin-w

[westman 257]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Is that still the case though Hasse. I thought BIOS updates had changed that. MCE set to Auto defaulted to on, but I thought it now defaulted to off, unless you select yes when you set your XMP profile, via the MCE pop up box?

just updated the bios, mce auto,  Auto: Asus optimized core ratio Turbo settings at default processor speeds. Disabled: Intel default Turbo core ratio settings

I only run  Sync all cores dont bother with other settings with Coffe Lake as with the  x299 I9 cpus.

Finished a HT On profile 5.3ghz 1.36v mem 4400mhz C18 prefer C18 1T/4400 before 4600/C19 2T ,temp occt linpack 60-64c as in P3D, time for a 5.5 HT off now

 

[martin-w 3,235]

6 minutes ago, westman said:

just updated the bios, mce auto,  Auto: Asus optimized core ratio Turbo settings at default processor speeds. Disabled: Intel default Turbo core ratio settings

 

 

Hasse, don't know if you know why but just checked my Maximus X Code.

MCE is now auto or disabled, ON isn't there any more.

Weirdly MCE seems disabled on the Maximus X. Doesn't matter what I do, it's not active. Only Intel Turbo settings are active.

 

The pop up box "Would you like to enhance system performance" when XMP is set to on, still appears but does nothing.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by martin-w

[westman 257]

35 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Hasse, don't know if you know why but just checked my Maximus X Code.

MCE is now auto or disabled, ON isn't there any more.

Weirdly MCE seems disabled on the Maximus X. Doesn't matter what I do, it's not active. Only Intel Turbo settings are active.

 

The pop up box "Would you like to enhance system performance" when XMP is set to on, still appears but does nothing.

 

not a clue, shall ask Jon

[olivermitch99 0]

Cheers everyone!

I think that considering the cost, the 8700K is gonna be the way to go. From there, I'll look into using MCE vs Intel Turbo.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion - you've all been a huge help to me.

Kind Regards,

Oliver Mitchell

[aerostar 42]

3 hours ago, westman said:

Finished a HT On profile 5.3ghz 1.36v mem 4400mhz C18 prefer C18 1T/4400 before 4600/C19 2T ,temp occt linpack 60-64c as in P3D, time for a 5.5 HT off now

Hey Westman can you tell what settings you're using to get that 5.3 speed...   and can you run a PASSMARK test https://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm to see the figures....  thanks

aero

[westman 257]

never run passmark, here is my result dont know if its good or bad.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1a7esxj5x9o90m6/Passmark8700k.png?dl=0

Single tread , single seems to be very good 

 Ht-On 5.3        https://www.dropbox.com/s/xz5l8536r5w1hyo/Ht-on.png?dl=0

 Ht-off 5.5        https://www.dropbox.com/s/wym3yoo9ejx0k3s/Ht-off.png?dl=0  

Edited June 20, 2018 by westman

[martin-w 3,235]

4 hours ago, westman said:

not a clue, shall ask Jon

 

Just done some overclocking with the new BIOS that came out a few days ago. 1401. Much better experience for me now with the new BIOS. Was requiring hefty voltage before.

Now: 5 GHz - 1.35 volts - AVX offset 2 - LLC 5. HT on - Ambient 24C.

Temp peaked briefly at 86 but spent most of the time at mid to high 70's. RealBench stable. Didn't try tweaking volts down but pretty sure it would take it. Seems my CPU wasn't a bad overclocker at all, it was just the immature BIOS as I suspected. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,235]

5 hours ago, westman said:

j

Finished a HT On profile 5.3ghz 1.36v mem 4400mhz C18 prefer C18 1T/4400 before 4600/C19 2T ,temp occt linpack 60-64c as in P3D, time for a 5.5 HT off now

 

 

What cooling is that Hasse?