Using SIDS/STARS with MS Flight Planner

[Guest xiggy99]

All things things about ATC that I never knew. The problem is Microsoft have gone to all this trouble creating a complex ATC for us to use, and the majority of us don't know it's full capabilities. I have been looking how to fly SIDS and STARS for a while but can't find much info on the FS9 ATC.Anyway my question is, how can I program a IFR plan with a STAR if I don't know what the active runway is at my destination airport. In the example you gave, to fly the MACEY2 STAR, you are only assuming that RWY34 is active, yes?Mike...

[RFields5421 1]

The MACEY 2 STAR is for ALL runways at KATL - east or west arrival.The plate ends with this instruction on flying the STAR"Expect radar vector to final approach course after LOGEN INT"That intersection - LOGEN - is 29 nm from the KATL VOR.You fly your STAR until assigned a runway with the default ILS or visual approach for landing. DO NOT ACCEPT such an assignment.Select a different approach for the runway, or an alternate runway it if is open - select either an ILS approach with a transition or a GPS/RNAV approach.Those approaches can be displayed on the FS9 GPS, and the aircraft will fly them perfectly.It's a good idea to familarize yourself with the approaches possible and their transitions before starting your flight.Another useful resource is the free downloads of the STAR and Approach plates from many sources - personally I like www.airnav.com.The default ILS and visual approaches are included in FS for people who do not want to fly real procedures and want to be told every turn to make to get to the airport.That also puts you in the same lineup for landing as the AI aircraft.Flying a separate approach type lessens the chances of the AI aircraft interfering with your final and landing.

[Guest av84fun]

I've printed out your post. THANKS for the time and detail you presented.Regards,Jim

[Paul J 349]

. . same here, Reggie. You and "Jimmy the Nav" Vile have opened up another world and a huge new learning experience that will take weeks to master. I had no idea the FS was this flexible. Being an old adf/vor guy, I've never even used the gps! Y'know - one of the biggest headaches I find - is keeping the FS Passengers happy while managing the DreamFleet 727 on a let-down pushes one behind the eight-ball. It's good pressure, as there's not a lot of time for an inexperienced Joe Pilot to control a normally three-person aircraft and learn to navigate an approach at the same time. It's fun, though, and gets better all the time, so many thanks for these instructions, guys. They're just what I need, and more than a few others will benefit, too!

[Guest radivil]

I hate to drag up such an old thread, but it seemed better than starting off a new one. Plus someone might read this and learn the great things contained herein. For the most part, I can locate the appropriate intersections when planning my DP and STAR. But occasionally there's no intersection where there should be one, as per the current terminal procedures I've found at airnav or flightaware, or one that's about the right place but with a different name. My question would be do they delete or rename intersections periodically, namely between the ~2005 snapshot that FSX is and May/June 2007? Occasionally I've also come across approaches that I have plates for that aren't in the GPS database in FSX, which I assume a symptom of 2005 vs 2007.

[RFields5421 1]

Yes, navigation data changes several times a year - intersection names, locations of intersections, navaids, new approaches etc.The detail level you wish to go on updates / new procedures is up to you.Personally I use a spring 2005 Jepsen set for the US because they match FSX.I'm lucky enough to have access to a corporate flight department old plates / charts when I want them.

[Guest radivil]

>Yes, navigation data changes several times a year ->intersection names, locations of intersections, navaids, new>approaches etc.I assumed such, but I figured I should ask someone rather than face the alternative (continuing thinking I was too stupid to find a dot on the map that was equidistant from two other dots connected by a straight line).Learning this stuff has really increased my enjoyment level. Endlessly zigzagging to the ILS was never very fun and felt a little unrealistic. Now I get to fly approaches that I've actually flown as a passenger and that's great to me. I've also learned terminology and procedures I'd never heard of before, like when I got ordered to fly my RNAV approach to runway 10L and sidestep to runway 10C. I'd never heard of sidestep before!Maybe one of these months I learn how to fly the visual approach to runway 19 down at Reagan, which was a blast as a passenger.

[Guest BobKK]

Jim,I wanted to say thanks very much for the information you provided above. I read it in a post you did some time ago and I've been flying STARS into those airports that have them, since. As you say, STARS are the way it's really done, not hand-holding by ATC, so it makes the Sim experience a lot more realistic.I get my real world flight plans from a website of which I'm sure many simmers are aware,http://flightaware.com/live/If the flight plan I select incorporates a STAR, I always plug in the STAR waypoints into the FSX flight planner and, 8 times out of 10, I'm able to fly the STAR as filed. Sometimes, the last waypoint in the STAR is not part of any published approach so it doesn't always work out perfectly, but more often than not, I can fly the complete Arrival Procedure, as published. And this is using only the stock FSX flight planner.In fact today, I flew the Learjet from KBUR to KSFO and I flew the entire BSR2 (Big Sur 2)arrival, with a perfect landing on 28L. The secret was to, at the appropriate time, ask for the ILS 28R approach with the MENLO transition. MENLO is the last waypoint on the STAR. ATC cleared me direct to MENLO.Piece of cake.

[jvile 1]

When I released my FSX KATL several months back I updated the FSX database for all the new RNAV Transitions that are now used off the STAR arrivals at Atlanta. I also went one step further and opened all 5 runways for the AI traffic arrivals to help eliminate go arounds.Thr MACEY2 arrival STAR has been replaced with 2 new arrivals (see AIRNAV) and all transitions are now RNAVS. If you have ever flown into Atlanta (real world) my Transitions are exactly the same approach from the STAR's.In my upcoming release of Miami (KMIA) I have decided to go to the next level of STAR arrivals and start programming the AI Traffic to fly Transitions rather then the default vectors to final that FS9/FSX uses.Many users are starting to understand and fly STAR arrivals and IAP transitions so I have coded RWY 9 for all AI Planes coming from the South to do the same. There will no longer be a simple vectors to final for RWY 9 and ATC will vector and sequence ALL Planes (including user) to a funnel point 100 NM descending to FL240 south of KMIA inbound to RWY 9 (not 27). This technique also makes the entry to the approach a little more complex and challenging for the User. Without a proper approach plate the User will never understand what ATC is doing and get lost. In the event the User gets lost on the approach I have also opened RWY 12, 8R and 8L simutanously so any runway can be selected when on the approach as a out and then get hand holding ATC instructions if needed.Other features are being added to FSX KMIA with the new World Alliance parking. New Terminal J now has animated jetways and parking for the A380 which is the only Terminal that MIA says can support that size plane. Runway 8L/26R and 8R/26L are also coded to receive inbound AI Traffic simutanously (clear weather visual stagger approaches only) with RWY12/30 and 9/27. This is accomplished with the use of my crosswind runway arrival technique.All runways at KMIA are now open to help eliminate go arounds simular to what I have done with my FSX KATL. User and AI Planes that weight up to 94,000 lbs will be vectored to the Localizer 8L/26R and Heavy type planes are vectored to 8R/26L ILS or 12/30.Just a few things in the works for my KMIA. A new FSX EHAM will follow shortly after the KMIA release with many new features and AI/User behavior.

[vonmar 123]

Paul,Nice time for you to give VATSIM.net a look at. Sounds like you are ready for the real thing in ATC.VATSIM uses all of that and more ... eg., your arrival may even include instructions to "hold" because of traffic or weather.You will end up "really using" FSbuild, SID/STARs, approach plates, high(jet routes)/low (arrival) altitude charts etc.Your cockpit will be like real life!****>Well - Shucks, Darn and Heck!. Thank you both for these>answers. I really thought this was a case of me truly being>dumb, but maybe not. OK - what do most people do - high or low>altitude airways? or VOR/NDB to VOR/NDB, perhaps requesting a>higher altitude? Perhaps the best way is to just forget about>ATC altogether, crank up the (AV6 & FE) overcast and do the>real nav? I guess this is the way to do it. D'you suppose FSX>will support SIDS/STARS?

[briansommers 74]

Ok, this is great news, but one concern I have and that is - what about altitude restrictions, etcI can see when taking off, you acknowledge dep freq. but just dont contact them - but what about landing, a lot of STAR's have alt. restrictions at certain points, FS9 ATC starts yelling at you when you're not at the alt. that the atc wants you to be - how do you deal with this?thanksciao!Brian S

[RFields5421 1]

FS9 ATC starts yelling at you when you're not at the alt. that the atc wants you to be - how do you deal with this?Ask the ATC for the desired altitude.You can request higher or lower altitudes in increments of 1,000 ft.The only time the ATC will not authorize a lower altitude is when it puts you under the MSA (Minimum Safe Altitude) for the grid. That can be a frustrating issue at places like SVMI where very high mountains are in the same grid as a sea level airport.Remember - this is YOUR flight. It is your responsibility to know the rules. Microsoft gives FS a tremendous capability for you to customize the experience.

[briansommers 74]

oh man, duhh, yes i do remember that option, i just dont use it that much, thanksciao!Brian S

[Guest PARADISE]

I too want to thank you guys. This is some of the most usefull information I've ever gotten. Can't wait to get home and fly my " renewed " sim. Thanks:-) John M

[Guest jshyluk]

A ways up, folks were asking about what runway was going to be the active one for arrival, so that you could plan your STAR in advance.One way to do this is to simply open up the Map in MSFS. Find the destination airport, and mouse over it. A popup will show up that will show you the airport info, including weather, especially wind direction. The active runway is based in which way the wind blows. If you want to set up a particular runway, you can custom-engineer the wind to make that runway open up. If you keep the weather constant, then whichever way the wind is blowing at the beginning of your sim session will be the way it blows at the end, which means you can plan your SIDs and STARs in advance.Of course, if you use variable weather, then there's a chance the wind may veer, in which case, you will want to keep your alternate approach plates handy, just like the real-world pilots do. Jeff ShylukAvsim Product Reviewer