Akila

how to limit my Yoke/Aircraft Max angle in XP?

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Hi all, I have a Saitek Yoke (pro flight), the Yoke turns (left/right) up to 45 degrees on each side, (I think it's called "X" Axis).
However, in XP11 (or any XP version in that matter), the plane's yoke goes to the full 90 degrees when I am at the 45 degrees on my Yoke,  which makes it very hard to control the airplane as they are out
of SYNC (yoke limitation to go behind 45 degrees).

My question is: 
is there a way to limit my airplanes in XP11 (e.g. Twin-otter, Zibo, etc.)  'X Axis' that the max they will go is 45 degrees like my yoke?
maybe some sort of calibration, dead zone, etc. not sure how.
wanted to consult with you experts..

Edited by Akila

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I think you can do that on a per-aircraft basis, using Plane-Maker.

.) Open Plane-Maker (it's in the X-Plane root folder)

.) Open the aircraft you want to modify ("File"->"Open")

.) Go to the tab "Standard"->"Control Geometry"->"Phase-Out"

.) Set "AILERON 1: low-end speed (kias)" to "000", "low-end control travel (ratio)" to "0.50", hi-end speed (kias)" to "999", "hi-end control travel (ratio)" to "0.50"

.) Do the same for "AILERON 2"

.) Save the aircraft ("File"->"Save")

 

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ok i think I got the idea, I'll test it out.

but one question...
why should I change the low-end speed (kias)" to "000" from it's original value (in my case Zibo it is 140) and the same for High speed to 999 from 440?
isn't it enough just to play with the ratio part?

anyway I'll test it and let you know. thanks for your help!!!

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1 hour ago, Akila said:

anyway I'll test it and let you know. thanks for your help!!!

tried it, it doesn't seem to have any effect.
is there a way to reduce it by half in the SIM level rather than Aircraft level?

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1 hour ago, Akila said:

tried it, it doesn't seem to have any effect.
is there a way to reduce it by half in the SIM level rather than Aircraft level?

It is actually working, the problem is that the aircraft designer linked the yoke animation to PC flight controls deflection, instead of the actual flight control deflections. In other words, when you modify the aircraft in Plane-Maker, you still see the yoke deflecting fully (+/-90 degrees), but it's juts a visual "bug", because the internal flight model will apply only one half of aileron deflection (equivalent to +/-45 degrees of yoke deflection). I just checked with the default C172, looking at the internal datarefs (flight model variables) and I can confirm that the ailerons gets one half of deflection (in the internal flight model). You should.notice that as a reduced roll rate, compared to the un-modified aircraft.

 

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for some reason it doesn't work for me. I tried it on three airplanes.

the C172SP (default)
B737-800 (Default)
Zibo 737-800

i followed your procedure, and made sure it was saved (i double checked by closing the program, reopening it,
load the aircraft again and see the values are the one i changed)
but in the SIM I am still getting 1.0000 and not 0.5000

UCPBMp41_o.jpg

What am i doing wrong?

ZyBLORmx_o.jpg

Edited by Akila

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That's the commanded flight controls deflection. Use the "Aileron deflection" data output (should be index n. 70), you'll see that the actual aileron deflection is reduced to one half after you make the change (I think it goes from 15 to 7.5 degrees, IIRC).

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It seems to work 🙂
thank you sir

6 hours ago, Akila said:

but one question...
why should I change the low-end speed (kias)" to "000" from it's original value (in my case Zibo it is 140) and the same for High speed to 999 from 440?
isn't it enough just to play with the ratio part?

what about this question I asked earlier?

Edited by Akila

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If I see it correctly 11.30 might fix your problem anyway:

https://developer.x-plane.com/2018/09/joystick-features-coming-in-x-plane-11-30

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Physical Yoke = Saitek Yoke you got or CH yoke, etc. that is limited up to 45 degrees turn on each side

i am not sure this would tackle my problem or everyone's problem, those who have a yoke turn of 45 degree max on each side.
the issue i described is more that it is to sensitive due to the fact that it has less yoke turn than the aircraft does.
the cockpit yoke would peak at 90 degrees on each side in the cockpit, even though you in fact only have 45 degrees turn on your physical yoke.

the outcome of this is that every angle/turn in between 0-45 on your physical yoke is doubled and much more sensitive on the aircraft yoke / turn as it actually needs to operate 0-90 degrees aircraft yoke in 0-45 degrees physical yoke space.
remember when you turn your physical yoke 45 degrees the SIM sees it as peak Axis and therefor places the aircraft yoke to 90 degrees turn. so any degree in between 0-45 on your physical yoke would double in the SIM.

For example if i turn my yoke 20 degrees to the left, it would actually turn my yoke at the cockpit at around 40 or 50 degrees
to the left which of course would traverse this effect to the ailerons deflection being much higher than my intention, as you turned your aircraft yoke 50 degrees to the left,
as apposed to only 20 degrees as intended when turn it on your physical yoke.
in fact you only turned your physical yoke 20 degrees to the left which should intended to have less ailerons deflection as apposed to 50 degrees actual cockpit yoke turn.

the best way to mitigate this issue is by having a full 90 degrees (180 combined sides) turn yoke, such as the Saitek Cessna yoke.
the semi-solution is to 1/2 the sensitivity as described above by MURMUR, which brings it more closer to being in-SYNC.

the issue i described is a different to what they are trying to solve (i think)

Edited by Akila

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10 hours ago, Akila said:

It seems to work 🙂
thank you sir

what about this question I asked earlier?

Yes, you are probably correct, just setting both phase-outs to 0.5 should work neverthless, independent of speeds settings.

As Longranger said, it's possible that the new joystick curves feature could resolve your issue at a sim level. Probably you will be able to set the joystick curve as to have a 50% control deflection for a 100% yoke deflection, so maybe 11.30 will resolve your issue once and for all. In this case it will work for all aircrafts, and even the visual deflection of the VR yoke should be correct. But of course, remember to put back the original values in plane-maker.

 

Edited by Murmur

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let's hope it would..yes of course i'll revert the airplane specific settings if i could do it in the SIM itself.

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On 9/30/2018 at 2:13 PM, Murmur said:

Yes, you are probably correct, just setting both phase-outs to 0.5 should work neverthless, independent of speeds settings

Question:

Out of the Box Zibo Mod is shipped with those settings:

yBdfrnR.png

what does it means Low end speed 140 and High End speed 440?
does this mean that anywhere within the 140-440 knots envelope the Ailerons are at full sensitivity?
what happens below 140 and/or above 440?

if I change it to 0.50 leaving the 140/440 Envelope, does it means that the 0.50 sensitivity would kick in only between those speeds?
what would be the sensitivity below/behind 140/440? 
Do you know if it is possible to create Speed steps Sensitivity?
e.g. 110-130 = 0.30, 140-160 = 0.50, 160-220 = 0.60..and so on (assuming I understand this low/high end speed thingy correctly)?

Edited by Akila

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Deflection will be low-end ratio below low-end speed, high-end ratio above high-end speed, and linearly interpolated between the two speeds.

E.g. 100% below 140 kias, 10% above 440 kias, and linearly decreasing from 100% to 10% between 140 and 440 kias.

Multiple steps would only be possible writing a plugin.

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I don't think i understood 😞
can you maybe try simplify it? (I am dumb).

maybe this would help:
if i put in 0.50, does that mean between 140 to 440 it would be constant 050% deflection? or it is still variable deflection in that speed window?
what happens at 441 (onward)?
what happens at 139 (downwards)?
I think Examples and use cases I found helps a lot 🙂

Edited by Akila

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Take the zibo settings above:

.) from 0 to 140 kias, full yoke deflection will produce 100% aileron deflection

.) from 140 to 440 kias, full yoke deflection will produce a deflection of ailerons decreasing with increasing airspeed: 100% at 140 kias, 55% (half between 100% and 10%) at 290 kias,  (half between 140 and 440), 10% at 440 kias, with other values in between linearly interpolated.

.) above 440 kias, full yoke deflection will produce 10% aileron deflection.

 

 

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If you put the same values (e.g. 0.50) in the two boxes, the max deflection will be the same at any speed. So in this case the two airspeeds have no effect.

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