UK's wierd laws for violent crime

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Just one more point. If a country allows gun ownership and allows people to kill burglers then what do you think the burglers will do? Will they stop burglering? Oh no, now they come with an Uzi. Maybe I'm a bit dim, but to me that encourages criminals and puts families at a much much greater level of risk. What is more important: The family silver or life?"That's the same argument being made elsewhere in the thread, and it's based on the misconception that people who believe in strong penalties or the right to defend oneself go around shooting at everything that moves here in the States. That is simply not true.90 pct. of the home invasion type murders and shootings are happening to unarmed citizens who are executed, for lack of a better word. Burglars will tell you they go for easy prey. Do guns escalate things--yes they do. I hate them, and after our break in my wife urged me to get one. I refused--I'll take my chances I can either escape my house or jump the burglar if that's my only choice. I believe with the steps I've taken I can get my family out of the house during a break in--that's better than killing anyone, even if the person doesn't deserve to live because their intent is to harm me. But I respect others defending their lives through whatever means it takes--I understand how it feels to be cornered. They know the stats as well as I do, and know if they are unarmed, their life is forfeit if the burglar or home invader is in the mood.Funny enough, the only gun I've ever seen in a home in recent years was in Ontario (the Province). It was kept for the purpose of fending off bears--"the right to disarm bears"?-John

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Actually I am not insulted at all--I believe 100 pct. our society is lopsided (for lack of a better word) in favor of those who have had "luck" on their side. One of the reasons I have enjoyed travel to Europe as much as I do is I see how many countries there distribute basic services--medicine, education, transportation--far better than we do in the States--with no one complaining about loss of freedom or their right to make a profit, etc... But for better or worse, the States are my home. As my generation grows older, there will be a change in our society as these services will be in greater demand as fewer can afford them. But I am afraid in the meantime, there will also be a stronger and stronger backlash against those who use society as an excuse to execute kids, maim the elderly, and otherwise wreak havoc in all layers of our society. -John

[RobertVA 0]

>The relatively wealthy middle class needs to>be less egotistical and ask what they can do to remove the>reasons to commit crime.Complete nonsense. Most criminals don't commit offences because of poverty. There are PLENTY of honest people in the U.S. (and other countries) of modest means. The criminals are inconsiderate (explicative never typed) that don't mind stomping on their victim

[cat 2]

It is widely held, that the English legal systemis the best in the world.And if you look at it rationally, without squealing,squeaking, snorting, huffing, wheezing, honkingand shreiking, & squealing(2x)--- you will see that itis true!Hope this has been helpful,Peter Sydney Australia

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Great reply Peter--you made your point and gave me a good chuckle at the way you made it too...-John

[Guest Jimbofly]

If you think that's bad you should come to Australia. Gang rapists get 5 years with a chance of perole.James

[Guest]

>>er ..no. European model of social democracy involves>redistribution of wealth to tame the excesses of capitalism>because when markets are left to run free the result is gross>inequalities between rich and poor, leading to more crime as>peoples aspriations become lawfully unreachable. >No, that's the normal and ageold socialist excuse for stealing from the population to stuff their own pockets.The greatest inequity in wealth in the world today (which is in Africa) exists in countries with a strict socialist government.

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

i onno about the uk, but try that here in the states. Texas especially. While all the other states are trying to abolish the death penalty, Texas, heck, were puttin' in a express lane. Yupp... Sending em straight to the top of the death list. I dont really know about other nations, but i think this is a great way to run a country's law. I think the sentences fit the crime here. As far as the kids who beat up and shoot elders, they would be in prison untill the age of 70 if they were lucky. Many that would commit such a crime would be tryed as an adult do to the seriousness of such a crime. And if that was to happen, which most likely would, they would get life on a good day, or death in most cases. IMO, its about the best law system. Punishments are to severe, nor to light. They get what they deserve.

[rickalty 0]

"90 pct. of the home invasions in Phoenix last year ended up in the shooting of at least one of the occupants"Sorry, but that's a complete invention. In the overwhelming majority of home invasion burglaries, the occupants don't even know they've been robbed till they wake up in the morning. Richard

[Guest]

>>Anyone at all who enters My house>>Without My permission is Trespassing,and leaves any rights>>whatsoever they might of had at that border.>>So what you want is a license to kill, in effect a death>penaly for burglary or mere trespassing? Nice guy you are!>No, but the capability to use deadly force to protect yourself and those under your protection (like family members and guests) from deadly force applied by others is no more than a natural thing to have (even though socialists want to deprive people of that right and in many countries have).Taking away that self defense capability leads to genocide.The mass murder of Jews in ###### Germany was preceded by the taking away of the right to bear arms and the confiscation of all such arms.Same with the oppression of the population in the Soviet Union and elsewhere.At the moment Mugabe is trying to disarm his people at a time when he's actively persecuting those who oppose him (so far that opposition is peaceful even in the face of violence on the part of the government but he knows that can only last so long).In a society where people aren't allowed to have weapons only criminals have weapons.Where that leads is blatantly clear in Europe these days.In the Netherlands (with 15-16 million people) owning firearms (or even knifes over about 8cm long) is illegal. There's on average 1 person murdered using firearms each day though, crimes where firearms are used to threaten but not actually kill people aren't even reported anymore.

[rickalty 0]

"Texas especially. While all the other states are trying to abolish the death penalty, Texas, heck, were puttin' in a express lane. Yupp... Sending em straight to the top of the death list."Yes, and over half af all the people proven factually innocent (mostly by DNA evidence) after being sentenced to death are from that one State.And in cases where there is no DNA, God help you in Texas if the police decide you're a good fit for a case. A guy was executed in Texas just a few months ago for shooting a store clerk during a robbery. The ONLY evidence against him was an eye witness who saw the shooting from inside her parked car 50 yards away in the rain and at night. She picked the defendant out of a line-up AFTER he'd been brought past him in handcuffs. The police claimed he'd been found with the murder weapon on him, but hid the fact that ballistics had proven his gun was NOT the one that shot the clerk until after the trial. Seven people verified his alibi, but the defense attorney missed the deadline to file the witness list with the court, so none of them could be called. Couldn't really blame the defense attorney though.... he was fighting a crack addiction at the time of the trial, and spent most of it asleep. The Texas Supreme Court ruled that a defense attorney who sleeps through most of a trial does NOT constitute "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel" unless the defendant can prove the lawyer slept through the "important parts".. and he hadn't kept a log of when he was asleep and awake, so he couldn't do so, and got executed.Richard

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Okay, time to lock this one up.