Avidean

Virtual Reality first impressions (Samsung Oddysey+)

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3 hours ago, Avidean said:

Anyway, I had a little me time today and I planned on Flying the NGX from FSDT - KJFK to FT - CYYZ over DD NYC and FTX Glabal. So since I've praised VR no end its time to share some of my frustration. And maybe I can get some help.

I wasn't surprised to fiind big white square blocking my view so that put the stymie on that. I know its a known issue but I think everyone is waiting for a fix from PMDG. Having said that the NGX flight deck is awesome in VR from the point of view of the scale. I've been on the flight deck of a 737 a few times and its about right. On a screen you would get the impression that its much bigger than it actually is. Its about the same a being in the cab of a truck.

The next thing in Prepar3D is Recalibrate Origin. I mapped it to a button on my key board and it just wouldn't work. So once I loaded up the flight I had to select VR on the top menu on my monitor and have the mouse hovered over "Recalibrate Origin". Put the head set on, look straight forward and grope around for the mouse to click on it. That worked but it was frustration that the mapping to the button didn't work because I can find buttons on my joystick easily without being able to see it.

EnableGazeSelection also didn't work! I like that I can have a courser of sorts in VR but I don't want to see it in the center of my view constantly. I had assumed and maybe correctly that when EnableGazeSelection was disabled I could move that dot around with the mouse independently of head movement. The reason I don't know is that even though I turned off EnableGazeSelection, it just stayed on!

Given that I had to move the dot around with my head I still couldn't actuate switches of dials. Mouse wheel and buttons seem not to have any effect in VR in P3D.

It also seems very difficult to do any performance tuning in P3D for VR since there doesn't seem to be any way to access P3D menus in the VR. Its a lot of putting on and taking off. I am not sure if the emulator can be used for Performance tuning.I simply didn't have time to day to figure it all out.

So far I would say that the Implementation of VR in X-Plane 11 is far better than P3D but as I haven't had much time with it yet I won't commit to that.

I understand that the is a way to see you keyboard with the head set on via the cameras in the from of the headset. Again something I haven't figure out how to operate yet. Any tips much appreciated

I’m very interested in your findings. Could be a deal breaker as I mainly fly the PMDG planes. I seem to remember with my short time with the original Odyssey and P3D V4.3 that I was able to reset the cockpit position using a button assignment, and I was also able to interact with everything in the cockpit using the little white circle. Typing on the FMC was a bit of a pain, but still doable.

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25 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Well, it can be done.....

 

I did try flyinside, the demo, and honestly didn’t really like it. For me the native P3D vr was better. Somewhat less awkward. I guess I will have to give it a shot when my new pc is built. That would be disappointing if v4.4 went backwards in that aspect. That being said, from what I’ve seen so far, other sims will definitely be more vr friendly than p3d. Which causes a dilemma as the PMDG planes are my go to addons.

Thanks for the video

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I don't doubt that any of these things can be done. In fact I have already found the fix for the 2D popup white square blocking view in NGX (and apparently in all PMDG aircraft and fsl airbus) is a light sensor or something. Just wish I had more time to work on it! 😀

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Watched the video. Sure that works. I have a feeling he is using the VR controllers. Those translucent hands aren't my cup of tea. I definitely prefer the to just use the mouse and cursor. I'll have to hit them up on the LM support forum to figure this stuff out.

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5 minutes ago, Avidean said:

Watched the video. Sure that works. I have a feeling he is using the VR controllers. Those translucent hands aren't my cup of tea. I definitely prefer the to just use the mouse and cursor. I'll have to hit them up on the LM support forum to figure this stuff out.

For flyinside you definitely have to use the controllers, and like you, I would prefer using the mouse. Which is why I didn’t purchase their product, and stayed with the native P3D vr. Plus, I’m not sure, but I think flyinside hasn’t updated the product for 4.4 yet.I felt the little white cursor worked reasonably well in v4.3. That would not be good if this option wasn’t working anymore in 4.4. I guess I will have to try and see. The good thing is I have 30 days to return the Odyssey.

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Yes, I am sure it works. I am very green with this and have not had much time to figure everything out. But I am sure I have figured out the white Box in the NGX issue and the 6 DOF issue. Next on my list is moving the spherical cursor with the mouse in P3D and using the mouse buttons and wheel to interact with dials and switches. Can't imagine that is not possible with the native VR support in V4.4

Performance tuning for 45fps in single pass mode will be fun too, since it seems there is no menu access in VR. Again Maybe there is but I just haven't figure it out yet.

Anyway, there is no going back. The VR experience itself is out of this world!

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I definitely share your enthusiasm about the vr experience, and I really hope to make it work. I agree with you that there has to be a way to use the white cursor to interact with the cockpit in 4.4, as it was in 4.3.

For the white box in PMDG, I thought I read a post that mentioned altering some file to take care of it.

Hopefully Newegg ships my stuff soon so I can start experimenting.

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28 minutes ago, Avidean said:

 Next on my list is moving the spherical cursor with the mouse in P3D and using the mouse buttons and wheel to interact with dials and switches. Can't imagine that is not possible with the native VR support in V4.4

no problem using the mouse to interact within the vc, that's how it's supposed to work.   your cursor doesn't move with the mouse?

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1 hour ago, kdfw__ said:

your cursor doesn't move with the mouse?

in does on my monitor or I should say both of them do because in VR on the monitor there is a mouse pointer in each image and the sphere but in the headset only the sphere in the middle of the screen permanently. to move it around you have to move your head. When I hover it over a gauge it shows whats on the gauge and brightens and over buttons it brightens. but if i click on a switch, nothing.

I posted on the LM forum:

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=131874

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Good call on posting on the LM forum. It should answer your questions. I wonder what changed in that respect since 4.3, as operating the switches worked perfectly, although a little tricky.

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1 hour ago, Avidean said:

in does on my monitor or I should say both of them do because in VR on the monitor there is a mouse pointer in each image and the sphere but in the headset only the sphere in the middle of the screen permanently. to move it around you have to move your head. When I hover it over a gauge it shows whats on the gauge and brightens and over buttons it brightens. but if i click on a switch, nothing.

I posted on the LM forum:

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=131874

turn off gaze select.  then you'll be able to control the mouse within the hmd.

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Ok I go the white box taken care of in the NGX by Turning 2D panel transparency up to 100%. And I think the Gaze setting turned top NO Have taken. At least in HDR emulation they have. So I am all set for KJFK to CYYZ in the NGZ on Tuesday night.

I used to have far more time for flight sim!😢

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Keep us posted 😀

My Odyssey ahould arrive tomorrow, unfortunately it doesn’t look like the last component for my new build will arrive until next Tuesday...which means a late Wednesday test is more likely. Going to be a long week.

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It turns out that my next flying time is not tonight but tomorrow night. Why am I all of a sudden super busy and cant get 3 or 4 hours to myself? 😭

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I ditched school tonight 🙂

At last managed to take a flight in the NGX. Even though it was just a 5000' circuit. Got all the issues I ahd earlier resolved. Except there is a sound issue in V4.4. LM know about it. I am not sure its whats causing my sound problem. I can hear the engines running but that's it. No trim sound now push back chatter using the built in NGX push back in the FMC.

So apart from that from that I'll draw a conclusion. The fidelity to reality of Sim flying in SteamVR with a Samsung Odyssey+ is immeasurably superior to Sim flying in front of monitor no mater how big the monitor is or how close you are to it or how many pixels per square inch you have even with TrackIR. VR is superior in all ways but one.

If you are already visually challenged and struggle to see things that where once sharp as a razor you are already accustomed to wearing glass all the time and a different set for reading or bi-focals. You have already dealt with the frustration associated with diminishing clarity in your vision.

Using a VR for me is a bit like that but nothing is perfect. I don't notice any screen door effect and I now have 6 DOF so leaning in to see the instrument panel works very well. Turing dials and throwing switches takes a little adjustment.

But flying is a very fast paced environment and I am finding that I get thing done much quicker in VR.

I pretty much just hand flew that circuit and when I came out of the clouds at about 2500' feet on approach I was way of the runway center line. I sorted it out with very little time and greased the landing. I definitely would not have recovered from that situation using a screen even with TrackIR.

VR is the only way I will fly from now on!😁

Edited by Avidean
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On 12/9/2018 at 5:27 AM, Avidean said:

Anyway, I had a little me time today and I planned on Flying the NGX from FSDT - KJFK to FT - CYYZ over DD NYC and FTX Glabal. So since I've praised VR no end its time to share some of my frustration. And maybe I can get some help.

I wasn't surprised to fiind big white square blocking my view so that put the stymie on that. I know its a known issue but I think everyone is waiting for a fix from PMDG. Having said that the NGX flight deck is awesome in VR from the point of view of the scale. I've been on the flight deck of a 737 a few times and its about right. On a screen you would get the impression that its much bigger than it actually is. Its about the same a being in the cab of a truck.

The next thing in Prepar3D is Recalibrate Origin. I mapped it to a button on my key board and it just wouldn't work. So once I loaded up the flight I had to select VR on the top menu on my monitor and have the mouse hovered over "Recalibrate Origin". Put the head set on, look straight forward and grope around for the mouse to click on it. That worked but it was frustration that the mapping to the button didn't work because I can find buttons on my joystick easily without being able to see it.

EnableGazeSelection also didn't work! I like that I can have a courser of sorts in VR but I don't want to see it in the center of my view constantly. I had assumed and maybe correctly that when EnableGazeSelection was disabled I could move that dot around with the mouse independently of head movement. The reason I don't know is that even though I turned off EnableGazeSelection, it just stayed on!

Given that I had to move the dot around with my head I still couldn't actuate switches of dials. Mouse wheel and buttons seem not to have any effect in VR in P3D.

It also seems very difficult to do any performance tuning in P3D for VR since there doesn't seem to be any way to access P3D menus in the VR. Its a lot of putting on and taking off. I am not sure if the emulator can be used for Performance tuning.I simply didn't have time to day to figure it all out.

So far I would say that the Implementation of VR in X-Plane 11 is far better than P3D but as I haven't had much time with it yet I won't commit to that.

I understand that the is a way to see you keyboard with the head set on via the cameras in the from of the headset. Again something I haven't figure out how to operate yet. Any tips much appreciated

The mapping of recalibrate origin does work for me in 4.4. Strange. EnableGazeSelection off also works for me kinda. I can move the cursor around independent of my head but it still wants to follow my head movements to some degree even with it off. In Rift, you can access the virtual desktop with one click of the remote no need to take the headset off. SteamVR should have an equivalent. So you can interact with the simulator the same way you used to do it on flatscreen but with the headset on. I have to agree though that P3D VR is pretty primitive, I do find it hard to understand how P3D customers in the military find VR acceptably good for their needs. It is still very primitive but performance now is on par or better than Flyinside for me and definitely good enough for what I need it for (virtual gliding).

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17 hours ago, glider1 said:

(virtual gliding)

Now that is on my list for sure. I shoe horned the AeroSoft Glider Discus X in P3D V4.4 a couple of days ago but haven't flown its yet. But I have a feeling the Wolfgang Piper selection have very flat panels so they probably won't look so hot in 3D. I'll get around to giving some of them a good though.

Last I heard Condor2 is VR ready. So I might pick that up at some point.

Anyway tonight I blow my mind in X-Plane11.30b7 and Prepar3D V4.4. Now I think Prepar3D has the edge for several reasons but there are some bugs for Terrain water reflections in the right eye are way off. I'll report it to LM.

Also had an insanely good time in Project Cars😁

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I think the Discus X cockpit glass is less clear in VR in 4.4 because of PBR. I think it is the artificial reflections they textured into the glass stand out more now and are more annoying. Would like to get your opinion on that. The ASK21 from Aerosoft is beautiful in VR in 4.4 have flown it many times (but it is not officially 4.4 ready).

Yes water reflections are broken, I turn them off. They were broken for a long time already. Shadows are all good and VR performance is also good.

Yes most if not all the Wolfgang gliders are not VR compatible unfortunately.

Yeah I will definitely get Condor2 when it is VR ready.

But P3D is king with gliding for me because I am learning so much about gliding since I am flying in VR with IGC recordings of real world gliding pilots from https://www.onlinecontest.org in the same scenery and weather using ORBX and AS2016 historical weather using CumulusX and simlogger. Let me know if you ever want to know how to do that.

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17 hours ago, Avidean said:

Also had an insanely good time in Project Cars😁

Good to hear. I always think the people who give up on vr the fastest are also those who tend not to explore its full potential. Which means using it for many things, not just flight sims.

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3 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I always think the people who give up on vr the fastest are also those who tend not to explore its full potential.

Perhaps, but I can tell you that although I did at one time really enjoy playing computer games in general and particularly stuff like Medal of Honor, Ghost Recon and the like it did whittle down to flight sim and Racing Sim. To be engaged in such things requires one to be able to suspend one's disbelief. All escape requires that and for some its not an easy thing to do. VR makes suspense of one's disbelief a breeze. It is like being in an alternate reality. I gave it a lot of consideration and anticipated what it would be like but it has completely exceeded my expectations. I think VR is the biggest thing ever in computer games.😁

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I keep testing my new PC, and last night I was at Barajas (LEMD) checking my F1 GTN750 inside carenado´s phenom300 with traffic taxiing and taking off around me and could not understand how some people don´t give VR a chance. I can´t fly on a 2D screen anymore no matter how high my resolution is. Really, I can´t.

 

Cheers

Carlos

 

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