Avidean

Virtual Reality first impressions (Samsung Oddysey+)

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Before I sold my house and me the wife moved into a 600sqft. apartment I had a pretty spiffy man cave in the basement. Being a avid flight simmer I took advantage to have some pretty cool setups for sim racing and flight sim over the years. I started out with a home made sim racing chair and I would interchange controls between a Logitech G27 and Saitek yoke, pedals and TQ customized for the 737. And I also used the Saitek X52 for stick and throttle flying. I had everything setup for quick interchange and the sim racing chair was mounted on a four wheel dolly for maneuvering in and out of the closet where it lived. When I had it setup it was at a reasonably close distance to the 130" projected screen from a Panasonic PT-AE 4000 and of course I used TrackIR. This all lead to a very immersive experience and I was satisfied with it.

Eventually I decided that I would simplify thing by putting a screen in the 5' x 6' closet where the Sim racing chair lived so I bough a 60" Samsung and this lent for an even better experience than the home theater and was a permanent setup exclusively for flight sim, Sim racing and other video gaming. I was even more satisfied with this setup and enjoyed it for a couple of years before we decided it was time to downsize.

Of course I have had to give it all up and I ended up keeping only 60" Samsung which is now on the wall in my living room and my venerable old Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2. Now going form the setup I had to sitting on the couch with my joystick on the end table and nearly 3 times as far away from the screen as I was in my closet represents a serious down grade. Even worse playing Dirt Rally with an X-Box controller! 😭

Now I have toyed with the idea of getting a VR head set for a few years now. About 10 years ago I got wind of this device that had 2 screens and it was more or less a VR head set without tracking and I figure that I could get it to work with TrackIR. I cannot remember what it was called but I think back then I paid something like $500 for it. Anyway, I gave it a go and promptly sold it on ebay. I had very low res and field of view was so small it was like sitting in a dark room about 20' away from a 20" monitor.

Every time I read about low res it reminded me of this device so I figured "its not there yet!". But lately the improvement have tempted me more and more and having had my finger on the trigger for a couple of years now I finally pulled it on the Black Friday sale on the Samsung Oddysey+.

I had a failed to launch last weekend because my 980ti only has one HDMI port so I had to order a Display Port to HDMI adapter. (Make sure you get a good one that can handle the res and refresh rate required). But today I had my first experience of today's latest VR tech. And I mean literally my first. I have never had any modern VR headset on my head.

So, motion sickness is a sign that your brain is confused! Confused enough to think you have been poisoned. Hence initiating vomit reflexes. I think its safe to say that there is a proportional relationship between motion sickness and immersion in flight sim.

Today I couldn't get Prepar3D to work with VR but I took the easy option and fired up AeroFly FS2 and not to put to fine a point on it; I WAS ASTONISHED!

Q1. Would I swap this VR experience to get back the setup I had in my former home?

A. Not a chance! VR is by far the most immersive gaming experience I have ever had. You are practically there. I felt quite ill shortly after take in C172 in AFS2. I literally just flow around the circuit and landed. It was the most realistic landing I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED IN FS! Only I did not have 6 DOF. I could not lean in to see the gauges but I think I should be able to. I'll have to figure that one out. If you are simming on a screen I don't think you really get a sense of the size of the cockpit or flight deck however in my VR experience I really got the sense of just how cramped the space is.

Q2. Is that field of view noticeable and is there a Screen door effect.

A. I could only barely notice a screen door effect and only if I was deliberately looking for it. And its not really a screen door effect its more like a barely noticeable diffuse haze. Its not an issue! What field of view? As far as I was concerned I was there. If I looked for the edge of the image I could find it way over there in the extremity of my peripheral vision which is very good.

Anyway, I will add to this post as I try out P3D and X-Plane but for now I am giving this the massive Thumbs up. Best flight sim experience I have ever had. Hands Down!

Edited by Avidean
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Welcome to the small but hopefully growing family of Flightsim Virtual Reality users! (The racing community took to it like ducks to water)

First, I would say that you don't have the full 6DOF because during setup you did not choose room scale and set your boundaries.

Second, I will point you to a thread I have on the Aerofly forums regarding my findings using the Odyssey plus, specific to Aerofly but possibly informative generally as well, regarding good settings: https://www.aerofly.com/community/forum/index.php?thread/13676-samsung-odyssey-plus-overview/

Have fun, and don't forget to try the new Helicopter!!

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I have had trouble with forward/back tracking with the Odyssey and now O+ also.  It helps to have the play area well lighted and running setup even while in game will lock the tracking back on.  Not sure why P3D isn't working.  I spend most of my time flying around the world in Mr. Randazzo's airplanes.  In P3D 4.4 it seems necessary to press the windows key + Y to get the cursor to respond.  Many people say they can barely see the screen door effect, but I can.  It's not very distracting though.  Also in P3D when starting VR the world is always tilted up slightly which makes me queasy.  Setting the horizon level with the joystick hat fixes that.

 

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Today, I got to checkout X-plane 11 in VR. I can't say enough that this is the best thing since sliced bread. I've been fiddling around with computers and PC gaming for about 25 year and I have never seen anything close to as good as this. Sure you loose some resolution and your setting need to de dialed back a bit from what they would be on a screen but what you lose is far far outweighed by what you gain. For a start you are actually immersed in a 3 dimensional world. This is radically different from merely viewing 3D on a screen. You are actually embedded in the Virtual World as if you where there.

My usual test flight is from CYVR to CYSE so I loaded the Default C172 and off I went. I had the weather set to scattered with light turbulance and moderate rain.

You should see the rain and the clouds (all 11.26 defaut). I was scud running all the way. Couldn't believe how realistic it was. I have plenty of real GA experience and this was the nearest thing to real as I have ever seen. I even found it more real than being in a full flight deck simulator. It's like being in the matrix!

I also got to take a few laps around Spa-Francorchamps in Project cars. It was unbelievable! Even more realistic than FS. I picked up a used Logitech Momo on a local buy and sell site for $40. Its in mint condition and worked perfectly. In project cars you have a body and i the 3D environment you are completely persuaded that you have your hands on that steering wheel!

Cannot praise this experience enough. Its a bit of a learning cure but I am gradually figuring out how it all works. Still didn't get P3D to launch in Steam VR. Maybe someone can direct me to a tutorial to get P3D running in WMR. I also could get Dirt Rally to work.

Again I'll say to anyone sitting on the fence, this is simming and gamins at the next level!

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Yep, I’ve been a long term simmer since I was in my early teens thrirty  odd years ago, but in my day job I’m also a long haul jet captain with over 18,000 hours flying.

Putting the flight simulator experience on a monitor, which I still love on the left of the scale at zero and flying a real aircraft as a 10 on the right extremity of the scale I’d have to say that flying in VR would be definitely be scoring somewhere over 5, it’s nearer a real flight experience than a sim experience. With the right aircraft,hardware and controller of course.

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yup, flight sim in VR is the future and the future is here.  chuck the big 4k uhdtv and trackir, 3d immersion is sublime.  

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:19 PM, Avidean said:

Only I did not have 6 DOF. I could not lean in to see the gauges but I think I should be able to. I'll have to figure that one out.

It happened to me sometimes. Try running again the setup of Windows Mixed Reality, but choosing the "Seated" option. That worked for me.

I agree with you in VR with the experience. I got recently a Lenovo Explorer and had my most inmmersive experience flying with Aerofly FS2.
P3D and X-Plane run fine as well, but i notice some limitations in the image quality and less smoothness.

 

Edited by Charlie21

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15 hours ago, Avidean said:

Again I'll say to anyone sitting on the fence, this is simming and gamins at the next level!

If you want to be completely floored, download Google Earth (free) 

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Excuse the pun but the Odyssey continues! Today I managed to get P3D V4.4 running in VR. I had a hell of a time getting myself in the right position in the VC but I eventually managed to sort it out. I'll definitely have to read the VR stuff in the P3D learning center. Also had no sound with the A2A C172 but that's an issues I have had in the past too. And there is no centering force on my Sidewinder Force Feedback. I'll beat that a windows 10 thing. A lot of new stuff to deal with for me with Windows 10 and VR

That aside, I was blown away again by my flight from FSDT CYVR to ORBX CYSE over FTX PNW. I was pleasantly surprised at just how high I could yank those setting and still maintain a very smooth 30fps.

The immersion in the virtual 3D world is mind blowing. I know that that the image quality on a screen is considerably better but my days of simming on of any kind of gaming on a screen are over. The Pro's of VR outweigh the Con's by so much already that I am sure it is only a matter of time before VR really takes off. I can see that there are issues but I beat that after another few hours I'll have everything worked out and I beat that this technology in 2 or 3 years from now will be mind blowing. For this user its already mind blowing.

Next Is gate to gate in the in the NGX from CYYZ (fly Tampa) to KJFK (FSDT) over Manhattan (DD). Hopefully this weekend 😀

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I am a little confused. I thought P3D VR only worked with Oculus or HTC Vive, so it also works with Windows mixed reality headset too?

If so how does one setup it up? Is there software for Windows Mixed Reality? And I thought P3D you had to choose only between Oculus or Vive, does another option appear once you install the drivers for your Mixed Reality headset?

Avidean: which miniDisplay port cable did you end up purchasing?

Also, can Windows Mixed Reality headsets play Oculus rifts games?

Thanks,

realkewl

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Nobody reads my posts! They are big, beautiful posts. They are the best posts ever in the history of posts. Everybody says that...... 😀😸

(Well, mostly my Niece....)

 

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2 hours ago, realkewl said:

I am a little confused. I thought P3D VR only worked with Oculus or HTC Vive, so it also works with Windows mixed reality headset too?

If so how does one setup it up? Is there software for Windows Mixed Reality? And I thought P3D you had to choose only between Oculus or Vive, does another option appear once you install the drivers for your Mixed Reality headset?

Avidean: which miniDisplay port cable did you end up purchasing?

Also, can Windows Mixed Reality headsets play Oculus rifts games?

Thanks,

realkewl

To use the Odyssey with Prepar3D you must use windows 10 and Steam VR. After you install steam VR start P3D. in the scenario press alt for the top menu bar. select Steam VR under enable VR and P3D should start steam VR running and in you go. You can play any game that is compatible with Windows Mixed reality of Which Steam VR appears to be a Steam customized version

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1 hour ago, Avidean said:

Also this this is the HDMI to Display port adapter I got:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00S0C7QO8

Thank you...I see you have a desktop computer so you use DisplayPort I have a laptop so I use miniDisplayPort...but thanks for the info and good to know.

-realkewl

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Thank you for your impressions, that’s what I needed to order the Odyssey +. I did try last year’s Odyssey about 6 months ago, and really liked it. I ended up returning it at the time, but I think now I’m ready to go VR full time.

 I should receive it next week. Can’t wait to get started.

Quick question. Is it possible to open and operate windows (ATC, GSX, etc) from within the native P3D  VR?

Also, should I upgrade my GTX 1070 to a 2080?

Thanks

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On 12/4/2018 at 6:38 PM, Avidean said:

The immersion in the virtual 3D world is mind blowing. I know that that the image quality on a screen is considerably better but my days of simming on of any kind of gaming on a screen are over. The Pro's of VR outweigh the Con's by so much already that I am sure it is only a matter of time before VR really takes off. I can see that there are issues but I beat that after another few hours I'll have everything worked out and I beat that this technology in 2 or 3 years from now will be mind blowing. For this user its already mind blowing.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, flytrumpet767 said:

Also, should I upgrade my GTX 1070 to a 2080?

It would be a good move. Or a used 1080ti......

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14 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

It would be a good move. Or a used 1080ti......

Well, just ordered a 2080, hopefully both the card and Odyssey should arrive mid next week. Then the fun is starting.

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20 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

 

 

That is awesome. I cant believe the FPS of 170/80's. Before VR I typically focused on 1 sim mainly P3D, then X-plane 11 for a few months. Didn't think much of AFS2. But I've been supper impressed with all of them in VR and in different ways too. Never had much time for DCS but I am sure after watching this video that's going to change. VR has totally given my simulated flying and driving experiences a massive shot of adrenaline. I'm like a kid in a candy store 😁

Edited by Avidean
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I’m really excited now. So much so that I decided to upgrade the rest of my system. Now I just need to figure out which CPU to get...8700k, 8086, 9600k, 9700k...too many options...

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1 hour ago, flytrumpet767 said:

I’m really excited now. So much so that I decided to upgrade the rest of my system. Now I just need to figure out which CPU to get...8700k, 8086, 9600k, 9700k...too many options...

Main thread Ghz is you best friend with CPU. You should be looking for 5ghz+

I am still getting 4.8ghz from my five year old i7 4770k but I suspect that my next significant purchase will be used 1080ti

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I’m leaning towards a 8700k, but the 9700k is not much more for somewhat future proofing. I’m not sure about the heat issues while OC yet. I’m planning to upgrade my Noctua DH 14 with a DH 15. Just wondering if it’ll be enough to OC to 5ghz...more research needed.

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Anyway, I had a little me time today and I planned on Flying the NGX from FSDT - KJFK to FT - CYYZ over DD NYC and FTX Glabal. So since I've praised VR no end its time to share some of my frustration. And maybe I can get some help.

I wasn't surprised to fiind big white square blocking my view so that put the stymie on that. I know its a known issue but I think everyone is waiting for a fix from PMDG. Having said that the NGX flight deck is awesome in VR from the point of view of the scale. I've been on the flight deck of a 737 a few times and its about right. On a screen you would get the impression that its much bigger than it actually is. Its about the same a being in the cab of a truck.

The next thing in Prepar3D is Recalibrate Origin. I mapped it to a button on my key board and it just wouldn't work. So once I loaded up the flight I had to select VR on the top menu on my monitor and have the mouse hovered over "Recalibrate Origin". Put the head set on, look straight forward and grope around for the mouse to click on it. That worked but it was frustration that the mapping to the button didn't work because I can find buttons on my joystick easily without being able to see it.

EnableGazeSelection also didn't work! I like that I can have a courser of sorts in VR but I don't want to see it in the center of my view constantly. I had assumed and maybe correctly that when EnableGazeSelection was disabled I could move that dot around with the mouse independently of head movement. The reason I don't know is that even though I turned off EnableGazeSelection, it just stayed on!

Given that I had to move the dot around with my head I still couldn't actuate switches of dials. Mouse wheel and buttons seem not to have any effect in VR in P3D.

It also seems very difficult to do any performance tuning in P3D for VR since there doesn't seem to be any way to access P3D menus in the VR. Its a lot of putting on and taking off. I am not sure if the emulator can be used for Performance tuning.I simply didn't have time to day to figure it all out.

So far I would say that the Implementation of VR in X-Plane 11 is far better than P3D but as I haven't had much time with it yet I won't commit to that.

I understand that the is a way to see you keyboard with the head set on via the cameras in the from of the headset. Again something I haven't figure out how to operate yet. Any tips much appreciated

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3 hours ago, Avidean said:

So far I would say that the Implementation of VR in X-Plane 11 is far better than P3D but as I haven't had much time with it yet I won't commit to that.

Flyinside probably has the better P3D VR controls, but for various reasons many people have retreated from that option.

You might also take a look at flyinside sim. It's designed from the outset for VR

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