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GKELLERMAN

STAR Parsing

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About 50% ofthe time the SID ATC assigns is not correct for the runway it also chooses.

Example:

Flying into KDEN ATC chose BOSSS2 RNAV ARR and Assigned the rwy 16R ILS.  In this case it even failed to provide vectors when I reached the last point of the STAR.  Instead it gave a clearance to the KAILE transition on the 16R ILS procedure (BTW thats quite a distance from the last point on the STAR) without any help.

I made the transitionand landing BUT it clearly states on the STAR plate that when Denver is landing to the south (this case) the corresponding RNAV STAR is ZPLYN.  Thus I would not need to have fumbled around to convert to something that should have been easily handled by assigning the correct STAR BEFORE hitting the first point of the transition.

This is not the only mismatch I have run into Flying into KMIA and being assigned incorrect Stars for the active runway. Same in KPHX.  Again about half the time ATC gets it correct but after flying 4 or 5 hour  flights I expect ths kind of thing to be handled correctly.  124thATC actually does it better (or gives me a way to choose for myself the correct combination) and it didn't cost me anything.

Also I can't seem to find a request for vectors speech command.  The manual says "a) When requested by the pilot for a published approach or visual straight-in..." But it also says "ATC Gives Vectors to IAF (Removed)- "

I really am glad to have purchsed this program so I hope my disappointment doesn't seem too negative.

 

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If you could email me (admin@pilot2atc.com) a few of the flight plans where this is occurring, I can look into improving the algorithm for STAR selection.  Unfortunately, information that appears on the plates about preferred procedures, runways, etc. is not available in the data that is accessible by the program.  It would be nice if it were.

Making it easier to change the assigned STAR/Approach in flight is on the radar for improvement to the program. 

You can request vectors with a call to approach or Center like:

"<CallSign> request radar vectors for the ILS approach to runway 16 [at Kilo Delta Echo November]".  The airport identifier can normally be left off for Approach controllers as they are associated with airports.

Thanks,

Dave

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Thanks for the quick reply.

Sometime when I have nothing else to do I will create and save some flight plans that show examples of the problem. I had hoped for a replacement for on-line ATC when I purchased this program; but after your explanation of not enough data to make the correct choices I guess I will go back to online for my VA flights (When its available)

Just to try to be helpful the following Stars that I use often have Mates that are used depending upon the current landing direction:

KDEN: WAHUU TWO and KOHOE

            BOSSS TWO AND ZPLYN

           PURRL TWO AND JAGGR

The problem seems to be in if I file one or the other and the landing direction changes enroute it sticks with the wrong STAR and vectors 180 turns  after the last point of the procedure back to the correct approach (That adds quite a bit of time, distance and Fuel)

KMIA: SSCOT FIVE  Is a bit different as it covers both east and west but P2ATC is wrong in the vectors for east landing (It always vectors me right and around instead of left to intecept as the STAR plate describes)

KPHX: PINNG ONE  This STAR has a fork from BRDEY for east and west approaches however I have yet to been allowed to correctly fly the west (landing east) fork. 

There are others but those were off the top of my head.

Another question is that I fly with real weather (or as real as X_PLANE allows) and am trying to figure out if I can request vectors (ie.10deg Right/Left) or a direct to a NON_Flight Plan filed point to avoid enroute storms ect, then execute a direct to another point on my flight plan?  I vector myself now but have to listen to ATC keep trying to get me back on track.

Also is there an exhaustive listing of allowed ATC com verbage listings someplace?

BTW I turned off Force STAR Assignment in the settings thinking this might help with the STARS but it didnt.

Thanks for your attention

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Thanks for the examples of the problem.  I'll see if I can do anything to improve the logic.

The program currently does not have a way to request a course variance for weather, but that is on the list of possible future enhancements.  I'm pretty sure you can request a DirectTo not on the flight plan and your flight plan will be amended to insert the new waypoint and drop any intervening ones.  I would have to test it to be sure it works that way.

There is a printout of the SayIt phrases at the back of the User's Guide that might help.  An exhaustive printout would be nearly impossible as the grammar is written to accept the same concepts in as flexible a way as possible.  The User's Guide will give you a good idea of what's possible, but is not exhaustive.

If you want to get the STAR you pick in your flight plan, you can uncheck the "ATC Assigns STAR" option.  The Force STAR Assignment turned off is default and turning it on forces a STAR assignment even when the STAR makes for a longer/out of the way route.

Hope that helps,
Dave

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