Thac

Prepar3D VR and Pimax 5K+ or Pimax 8K (White texture flickering)

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Have anyone tried Prepar3D 4.2/4.3/4.4 in singe pass VR (not stereo mode, setting in P3D menu) with a Pimax 5K+ or 8K?

I have just received my 5K+, and no matter what I do in the PiTool or in P3D v4.3 I get these strange white texture flickering ground patches in my far right peripheral vision. They are only present when I set P3D to VR "Singe pass” rendering (in the P3D VR menu), and not when I set “Stereo" rendering. However, the performance in “Stereo” in P3D v4.3 is bad, and the clouds and water dont render correct in each eye when using “stereo”. I don’t have this "white texture flickering" issue on my Vive in "Single pass rendering"

Anyone here that have tried P3D v4.4 (or v4.2) in VR with a Pimax 5K+ or 8K HDM?

For me it seems like P3D in unloading ground textures to early in my right eye. Just before the physical screen edge on my right eye the textures becomes a white flickering mess - but only when using "Single" pass rendering in VR . 

Perhaps this is fixed in P3D v4.4?
Maybe there are som CFG tweeks I can try?
Anybody else experienced this with a Pimax 5k+ ?

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Thac said:

Have anyone tried Prepar3D 4.2/4.3/4.4 in singe pass VR (not stereo mode, setting in P3D menu) with a Pimax 5K+ or 8K?

I have just received my 5K+, and no matter what I do in the PiTool or in P3D v4.3 I get these strange white texture flickering ground patches in my far right peripheral vision. They are only present when I set P3D to VR "Singe pass” rendering (in the P3D VR menu), and not when I set “Stereo" rendering. However, the performance in “Stereo” in P3D v4.3 is bad, and the clouds and water dont render correct in each eye when using “stereo”. I don’t have this "white texture flickering" issue on my Vive in "Single pass rendering"

Anyone here that have tried P3D v4.4 (or v4.2) in VR with a Pimax 5K+ or 8K HDM?

For me it seems like P3D in unloading ground textures to early in my right eye. Just before the physical screen edge on my right eye the textures becomes a white flickering mess - but only when using "Single" pass rendering in VR . 

Perhaps this is fixed in P3D v4.4?
Maybe there are som CFG tweeks I can try?
Anybody else experienced this with a Pimax 5k+ ?

Hi there!

Yes. I´m having this issue too, but not with a Pimax HMD. I´m using a Samsung Oddyssey Plus WMR with Steam VR. I would not explain it as Groundtexture-Rendering issues. These white quadrants are much smaller as a ground texture tile, right? But they appear on the edge of the right handed lens and if I remember correctly, when you move your head from right to left (but I´m not sure).

It´s not much, but if you are focussing on it you´ll see it now and then. Correct? I´m getting my new Pimax HMD tomorrow and I will test it in a few days. What I could imagine is, that it also depends on your P3D "heavy" settings. It seems like it is getting less if you turn your sliders, in P3D, more left (Autogen and Scenery Draw distance from extremely high to high or even medium for example). This reduced this issue in my case.

Also my left lens didn´t have this issue at all. Yours?

I can confirm it only appears with VR "single pass" rendering mode, nothing seen here in "stereo" mode. My previous Oculus Rift didn´t have an issue at all. Also I´m now using P3D V4.4 with this issue again, P3D 4.3 also had this strange rendering problem in my case with WMR HMD.

I would guess that we are talking about <2% off the total lens surface.

Edited by mpo910

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22 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Hi there!

Yes. I´m having this issue too, but not with a Pimax HMD. I´m using a Samsung Oddyssey Plus WMR with Steam VR. I would not explain it as Groundtexture-Rendering issues. These white quadrants are much smaller as a ground texture tile, right? But they appear on the edge of the right handed lens and if I remember correctly, when you move your head from right to left (but I´m not sure).

It´s not much, but if you are focussing on it you´ll see it now and then. Correct? I´m getting my new Pimax HMD tomorrow and I will test it in a few days. What I could imagine is, that it also depends on your P3D "heavy" settings. It seems like it is getting less if you turn your sliders, in P3D, more left (Autogen and Scenery Draw distance from extremely high to high or even medium for example). This reduced this issue in my case.

Also my left lens didn´t have this issue at all. Yours?

I can confirm it only appears with VR "single pass" rendering mode, nothing seen here in "stereo" mode. My previous Oculus Rift didn´t have an issue at all. Also I´m now using P3D V4.4 with this issue again, P3D 4.3 also had this strange rendering problem in my case with WMR HMD.

I would guess that we are talking about <2% off the total lens surface.

Yes,"flickering white quadrants (mess)" describes this issue, and they are smaller than the ground textures. And they only appear over ground (in my far right lens)... not when I am in a left bank and the blue sky fills my right lense.

They are present all the time...but if I move my head it gets worse.

I have a i9 9900k and RTX 2080Ti and I have tried lowering many settings (draw distanse, auto gen and so on) but that did not seem not fix anything.

No issue at all in the left lense, and in the right it is about 3-5% of my vision.

Wondering if v4.2 also has this issue?

I have tried small/medium/large FOV and "use parallel projection" on/off (in Pimax PiTool) but still issues.

Does "Stereo" rendering pass in P3D v4.4 renders everything correct in VR for each eye (clouds, water at at low/medium/high/ultra)?

Meybe there is a texture distance CFG tweek... or something in P3D?

 

Looking forward to your "test result" after you have testet with your 5K+ 🙂

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Posted (edited)

It's a bug in P3D all headset users experience it so long as I understood you that it is white textures at the periphery of vision. It would get more noticeable the wider your field of view. There is nothing you can do except report it to Lockheed. It has been around since at least 4.3.

Edited by glider1

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Yes I have seen that too in the Samsung Odyssey+. I haven't noticed it a very long time though.

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Its there since they introduced Single Pass Rendering, no matter wich headset i use.

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1 hour ago, Chandler said:

Its there since they introduced Single Pass Rendering, no matter wich headset i use.

Yes, I agree, it is always present when using "Single Pass Rendering". And more noticeable when wider FOV is used (like Pimax 5K+ at 170 degrees - Large).

To get rid of this irritating white texture flickering in the right eye periperal vission I have to use "Stereo rendering". And in the Pimax 5K+ "Stereo rendering" produces a better VR image that "Singe pass". This is very noticeable when looking at cockpit instruments. When using "Single pass" and looking at the cockpit instruments I feel "cross eyed" - in "Stereo" rendering I do not feel cross eyed when looking at close objects (cockpit instruments, like the F-16 center ICP panel section).

So, I actually want to use "Stereo" rendering mode to escape the "cross eyed" feeling and to get rid of the flickering textures. But in "Stereo" (P3D v4.3) the Clouds and Water (when water detail is set to anything other than off) renders different in the left/right eye so I can't use stereo (don't want to remove all clouds). There are also some other objects that only renders in one eye with "Stereo" in v4.3. Are these issues fxed in v4.4 "Stereo rendering"?

What about v4.0 v4.1 or v4.2 and VR stereo/single - is that better?

 

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Cloud reflections don't work in 4.4 for stereo single pass never did in earlier versions either. For first gen headsets like the Rift most other stuff works well and the white textures at the periphery is noticeable but not too annoying.

Thanks for advising that the white textures at the periphery is worse for large FOV. I would doubt that Lockheed don't know about the issue.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, glider1 said:

Cloud reflections don't work in 4.4 for stereo single pass never did in earlier versions either. For first gen headsets like the Rift most other stuff works well and the white textures at the periphery is noticeable but not too annoying.

Thanks for advising that the white textures at the periphery is worse for large FOV. I would doubt that Lockheed don't know about the issue.

Does clouds that are near (fly through some clouds) render correct in both eyes in stereo and v4.4?

Does water surface render correct (when using anything above "off" in water details - all reflections should be off) in both eyes when using stereo in v4.4? 

Some guy at the Pimax forum says that XP11 also has these flickering lines/textures in the far right periperals... so maybe it is something with Steam VR (Open VR)?

Edited by Thac

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8 hours ago, Thac said:

Does clouds that are near (fly through some clouds) render correct in both eyes in stereo and v4.4?

Does water surface render correct (when using anything above "off" in water details - all reflections should be off) in both eyes when using stereo in v4.4? 

Some guy at the Pimax forum says that XP11 also has these flickering lines/textures in the far right periperals... so maybe it is something with Steam VR (Open VR)?

Hi Thac,

 

have my Pimax noww and get it not right setup in P3D. Can you write me your PiTool Settings (HMD/Brainwarp Settings). Thanks a lot

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Thac said:

Does clouds that are near (fly through some clouds) render correct in both eyes in stereo and v4.4?

Does water surface render correct (when using anything above "off" in water details - all reflections should be off) in both eyes when using stereo in v4.4? 

Some guy at the Pimax forum says that XP11 also has these flickering lines/textures in the far right periperals... so maybe it is something with Steam VR (Open VR)?

Haven't had any problems with cloud or water surface rendering in 4.4 at any distance on a rift. All shadows on land work normally. Not sure about boat wake. Performance is smooth. The particle special effects drag down performance a lot while they are active. You can't access VR panels through A2A rain effects glass unless you move the panels in the cfg files. Best wishes with that Pimax headset which should be ideal for flight simulation if you can get the setup worked out.

Edited by glider1

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16 hours ago, glider1 said:

Haven't had any problems with cloud or water surface rendering in 4.4 at any distance on a rift. All shadows on land work normally. Not sure about boat wake. Performance is smooth. The particle special effects drag down performance a lot while they are active. You can't access VR panels through A2A rain effects glass unless you move the panels in the cfg files. Best wishes with that Pimax headset which should be ideal for flight simulation if you can get the setup worked out.

And this is when you have "Stereo" rendering? Not "Single pass"?

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21 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Hi Thac,

 

have my Pimax noww and get it not right setup in P3D. Can you write me your PiTool Settings (HMD/Brainwarp Settings). Thanks a lot

I am using an older PiTool version. I think it is 109 (am at work now). I don't have brainwarp at all, the "Brainwarp" menu item is missing. For P3D I untick "Use paralell projection" and also untick the box above (can't remember the name of that). I set FOV to large (you can try small/normal/large). SS i PiTool I set to 1 and in Steam VR I set 80% (whit large FOV)

I have a i9 9900k and RTX 2080 Ti

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7 hours ago, Thac said:

And this is when you have "Stereo" rendering? Not "Single pass"?

Sorry single pass is all I use on the Rift. Works well on a 5.1GHz i7700k 1080 or 2080GPU.

You've done the best you can with the hardware. You could go over to the ORBX forum where the CEO of Orbx was asking if anyone has your setup.

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8 hours ago, glider1 said:

Sorry single pass is all I use on the Rift. Works well on a 5.1GHz i7700k 1080 or 2080GPU.

You've done the best you can with the hardware. You could go over to the ORBX forum where the CEO of Orbx was asking if anyone has your setup.

Alright, could you just test if the near clouds and the water details (when set above off, and all reflections to off) renders correct in both eyes in VR?

I have v4.3, and I don't want to upgrade to v4.4 if these two tings are not fixed.  

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Thac said:

Alright, could you just test if the near clouds and the water details (when set above off, and all reflections to off) renders correct in both eyes in VR?

I have v4.3, and I don't want to upgrade to v4.4 if these two tings are not fixed.  

Thac, typing this on the oculus virtual desktop now in VR in the F-22 default setting while flying at 700mph altitude 1000ft in rift cv1. Holding 45fps pretty well trying to keep the stick steady.

Settings for P3D 4.4 w10 i7700k5.1GHz 2080RTX:

super sampling 1.6, AA: 4MSAA, ant 16x, lod ultra, tess factor high, mesh 10m, text res 7cm, scenery complex extreme, draw distance high, veg dense normal, building dense normal, water detail medium, water reflections off, special effects med, hdr on, dynamic reflections off, dynamic lighting off, shadow quality high, draw distance ultra, shadow cast all on except veg/part/terr/NSFC, shadow receive all on, weather detailed 110mi max, vol fog off, traffic all 15% except road traffic off.

stereo mode: near clouds broken, performance stuttery, rendition generally seems off

single pass: near clouds normal, performance good, rendition good.

Slight white texturing at limit of right eye peripheral view when head panning.

Water reflections not working for any mode but water texture and shadows normal.

G-effects black out and red out effects do not fill the view at the periphery of vision.

Unsure about boat wake, particle effect performance not good.

Let me know if I can help you in any other way considering you are pioneering that amazing Pimax FOV headset for the rest of us.

Edited by glider1

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 7:33 AM, glider1 said:

Thac, typing this on the oculus virtual desktop now in VR in the F-22 default setting while flying at 700mph altitude 1000ft in rift cv1. Holding 45fps pretty well trying to keep the stick steady.

Settings for P3D 4.4 w10 i7700k5.1GHz 2080RTX:

super sampling 1.6, AA: 4MSAA, ant 16x, lod ultra, tess factor high, mesh 10m, text res 7cm, scenery complex extreme, draw distance high, veg dense normal, building dense normal, water detail medium, water reflections off, special effects med, hdr on, dynamic reflections off, dynamic lighting off, shadow quality high, draw distance ultra, shadow cast all on except veg/part/terr/NSFC, shadow receive all on, weather detailed 110mi max, vol fog off, traffic all 15% except road traffic off.

stereo mode: near clouds broken, performance stuttery, rendition generally seems off

single pass: near clouds normal, performance good, rendition good.

Slight white texturing at limit of right eye peripheral view when head panning.

Water reflections not working for any mode but water texture and shadows normal.

G-effects black out and red out effects do not fill the view at the periphery of vision.

Unsure about boat wake, particle effect performance not good.

Let me know if I can help you in any other way considering you are pioneering that amazing Pimax FOV headset for the rest of us.

Thanks for testing this @glider1 and for the detailed setup info. Using Large FOV and no PP in PiTool, SS to 1.0 in PiTool and 80% SS in Steam VR, and Single pass in P3D I can play P3D. There are issues with the flickering textures in my right periperal vision, and the 3D image in the Pimax 5k+ is a little "cross eyed" for very near objects (ie. close cockpit instruments).

This slightly "cross eyed" effect in the Pimax 5k+ can be eliminated by using normal or small FOV in the PiTool and by checking the PP (Parallel Projection) in PiTool. But this is a tradeoff from running the game in large (170 deg) FOV and no PP. So.... I actually prefer large FOV and slightly "cross eyed" for very close objects (center ICP panel in the F-16) than normal/small FOV. Stereo rendering in P3D gives the best image, no "cross eyed", and no white (right) flickering - but then again...no clouds or water textures.

I have testet every possible setup, and I prefer to use Large FOV, no PP, and Single pass rendering. I fly the F-16 and VFR. The F-22 and Normal FOV and PP on is also a option. When playing with the FOV (Large, Normal, Small) and PP on/off the cockpit scale changes (gigger, smaller). So it depends on the plane u fly if large/normal/small PP on/off gives the best cockpit scale/size.

The Pimax 5k+ (or 8k) is "still in development", and the drivers and firmware needs to mature more. It is not as easy as the Rift/Vive...you need to tinker with the settings for each game to get it optimal. But, despite it's many small flaws, the clarity, low SDE. and massive FOV makes it all worth it. It is a really nice HMD, but way to expencive really. If you are a VR and flightsim junkie (like me) it is worth it. Let's just say that I am not using my Vive any more, and I don't fly outside of VR.

As the Pimax 5K+ is right now I will give it 3/5 stars. If the software and firmware gets better I will give in 4/5 stars. The large FOV of (170 deg) makes you forgive all the other issues with the HMD. The image is a little distorted at the edges and slightly (just when setting PP off) at the center. The image gives a little "fish bowl" effect, probably because of the large FOV.

Everything I have written above is from my experience with P3D (v4.3) and mainly the F-16

Edit: Tried a little DCS yesterday, at that looked (and performed) much better than P3D - but they don't have the F-16 (yet)...

My HW is a i9 9900k and RTX 2080 Ti

Edited by Thac
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for what could be one of the first reviews of the Pimax5K in P3D and definitely one of the first to see it running at 170deg FOV with clarity and and low screen door!

What frames are you getting on the default scenario in P3D with 170 FOV (with the settings below) cruising over the suburbs at IAS=MACH0.9 and ALT=1500ft? I sit fairly smoothly at 45FPS in the Rift CV1. If you can't hit 45FPS what about a lower FOV?

Thanks again Thac. Just in case you want to upgrade to 4.4, I was using 4.3 with VR with success and then just updated the client - nothing else. The performance is at least as good as 4.3 (could be a touch smoother) and at least the VR panels can be re-positioned.

My reference settings for Rift CV1 on P3D4.4 w10 i7700k5.1GHz 2080RTX: Super sampling 1.6, AA: 4MSAA, ant 16x, lod ultra, tess factor high, mesh 10m, text res 7cm, scenery complex extreme, draw distance high, veg dense normal, building dense normal, water detail medium, water reflections off, special effects med, hdr on, dynamic reflections off, dynamic lighting off, shadow quality high, draw distance ultra, shadow cast all on except veg/part/terr/NSFC, shadow receive all on, weather detailed 110mi max, vol fog off, traffic all 15% except road traffic off.

Edited by glider1

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