BEAR

Nobody picks up the phone for my FSS CLR !

Recommended Posts

Hi all,
Suddenly I have a problem with "Uncontrolled Airports"! (RC4.3). After listening to the option "2-FSS WX", I go for options 4 or 5 ["CLR by FSS" or "CLR in AIR"] ... But nothing happens? Options 4, 5 do NOTHING !
What is going on ? Am I forgetting something ?
Greetings, Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

RC4.3 PLUS FSX Acceleration reinstalled today ...
With no possibility I get the options "4-CLR by FSS" and / or "5-CLR in Air" working !?
The only thing that works is "2-FSS WX". At first I thought it was my (first time) AIRAC update to 1906, but now with a "Clean" FSX (with original FSX AIRAC) no success either. Also read the manual 34 x ... If I have telephoned FSS for the Wx, you can immediately (once you have determined the departure runway) call FSS again for your CLR ! Or in the sky. Is it not ! My creativity is exhausted!
Can someone help me .... Please

Sincerely,
Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Guus, sorry but I never use RC4 in VFR mode. You say 'suddenly I have a problem...'. Something has changed on your system and only you are best placed to know what changes you have made. Maybe others who use RC4 in that mode can assist but if not I can only suggest you refer to the manual. That's all I can do too.

Try different airports. You don't say if you've done that. That's what I would do.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray,

Thank you so much for your comment !!! I really appreciate this!
Why do you think it's a VFR flight ? It is TUT 8 "KDRO - KPVU (KSLC)", an IFR flight. A VFR flight can only be started in the FSX Flight Planner, isn't it ? RC4.3 cannot determine at any other location whether it is a VFR or IFR flight, isn't it !
The problem started when I made a flight within Iceland. As a "check flight" I have ao. TUT 8 taken. This is also a flight from an "Uncontrolled" airport.
It may indeed be an OS "Problem" because the problem did not occur before. I have changed some settings of FSUIPC 4,974. Maybe that is a cause?!
What also happens is that the "Green message bar [single line message] indicates the number 4! This is also the menu item for" 4-CLR by FSS " ! Is this an (internal) error message ? If I press the " 1 or 3 " button, I get the message" N / A ". This is correct because those items are not there. However, if I press 4 or 5, then nothing happens ... (similarly if items 7, 8, 9, 0. This is also correct because those items are not there.) SO ONLY the items that I need DO NOT work (except item
"2-FSS WX" , which works) ...

Greetings, Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

My apologies Guus. I saw "Uncontrolled Airports" in your first post and linked it with a VFR flight. As I have never flown VFR I don't know how those are best created, sorry.

Anyway, if it's an IFR flight then the options available to you are determined by the frequencies and facilities available at the departing airport. Looking at f5.csv in the data folder that holds this info I have this:-

KDRO,0,0,"Durango-La Plata Co"
KDRO,3,122.80,"DURANGO-LA PLATA CO"
KDRO,4,122.80,"DURANGO-LA PLATA CO"
KDRO,10,118.57,"DENVER"
KDRO,11,122.35,"DENVER"
KDRO,13,120.62,""

Using NotePad++ (freely available on the internet) use it to open your version and paste what you have. Don't use Excel (if you have it) because it can corrupt those files.

If you don't have a f5.csv file the info will be in the f4.csv. You have the latest version of FSUIPC so that should not be an issue. If you have installed KDRO as a 3rd party addon you need to rebuild the database in RC4. If applicable have you done that?

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray,

Thank you for your response !
At "f4.csv" I found only 1 item from "KDRO" [KDRO, Durango-La Plata Co, 0,0,0,0,122.8,0,0,0], and not 6 as in your example. I don't understand things !? KDRO is a UNcontrolled airport without any transmitting installations. This is also confirmed with the "Controller Info". A telephone connection has no transmission range. (FSX thinks so?!).
What I [Unfortunately] noticed today is that MANY MORE items do not work for me! "7-to-acknowlidge" and "CS / to tepeat" and "1-CLR by CD on 13415" (TUT 1) etc.
I checked "Keyboard Definitions" and that was OK. It seems that my RC4.3 has problems finding and executing the items.

Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guus,

Firstly, I don't have FSX so it seems P3D has different airport data to FSX. Second, looking at f4.csv I too have a single entry albeit slightly different to yours. Don't worry about my f5.csv - that's modified for P3D only.

KDRO,Durango-La Plata Co,0,122.35,0,0,122.80,122.80,0,0

Have you got other 3rd party utilities that use keyboard commands? I suspect you have a clash somewhere. I suggest you run only FSX and RC4 and if your keyboard definitions work then introduce your other utilities one at a time until you discover the clash. Then change those key commands if able.

You didn't say if you have 3rd party scenery for KDRO and whether you have rebuilt your database. I suggest you rebuild anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again Guus,

I've created a plan from KDRO to KPVU and Wx and CLR and GND were available to me. Rebuild your RC Database. See if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just taken off on 02 and at 4 miles out instructed to contact Denver Centre on 118.57.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your help. First of all, forget my possible error about that "item 4". I found out that it has nothing to do with this problem ! It just was the last charater of the "Display Text" that says the QNH 29.9 4 . The 4 at a new line ...

I have 5 Scenery items involving KDRO.

--------------------------------------------------

0202 Base                C:\FSX\Scenery\0202\scenery\APX19180.bgl

---------------------------------------------------
ORBX!VECTOR_APT            C:\FSX\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_KDRO.bgl

--------------------------------------------------
FTX_ZZ_GLOBAL_AIRPORTS        C:\FSX\ORBX\FTX_GLOBAL\FTX_FTXG_AIRPORTS\Scenery\ADE_FTX_FTXG_KDRO.BGL

------------------------------------------------
FSAD_Approaches            D:\fsAerodata Files\Navigation Data\FSX\PROC\scenery\KDRO.BGL

-------------------------------------------------
FSAD_Comms            D:\fsAerodata Files\Navigation Data\Comms\scenery\FSAD_comms.BGL

--------------------------------------------------

And yes I updated FSX database (again) with "fsAaerodata" to AIRAC 1906 also updated LittleNavMap and last-but-not-least RC4.3 "Rebuild Scenery DB". I use "REX SkyForce", "FS Real Time" and ASE [Weather Generator]. I (still) use FSX "Settings - Controls" instead of "FSUIPC - Buttons and Switches".
I will check more in detail if there could be a "Clash" in keyboard definitions somewhere.

Tomorrow I will fly your example-flight KCRO[02] - KPVU and will see what happens after 4 NM ... So leaving without CLR = only VFR VMC. Your choice was "5- CLR in air" I suppose.

Regards,
Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi Guus,

That’s quite a list for such a minor airfield. The first entry is obviously the default FSX airport. I’m using the P3D equivalent which has frequencies for ATIS, Clearance, Ground and Tower but most of those share the same frequency.

The second applies to ORBX Vector but I don’t know if the BGL contains any frequencies. The third entry is likely to be the one that is being scanned by MakeRwys so it’s important it’s close to the top of scenery library when viewed in FSX. That means it has a higher priority than the default.

I’m not familiar with FSAerodata. Does it have entries in scenery library? Are they higher than the ORBX layer? If they are that could be significant.

For your test using the RC menu run just FSX and RC4. Forget weather as we don’t want to introduce anything that could interfere with button presses.

When MakeRwys runs it generates a huge text file in the main FSX folder named Runways.txt. Use Notepad++ to open it and search for KDRO. The last entries will take precedence over earlier ones.

The last entries are the ones being used by RC4. Copy and paste those into your reply.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray,

Thank you for your detailed explanations !
I am busy with the / your various possibilities, but it is getting only worse and worse !!! TUT 8 is not working properly. Not even in the sky after airborn. ! Only "2-WX" works well.
All the scenery files around KDRO are indeed VERY many ! In FSX there is no runway 02 and 20 anymore, but 03 and 21 ... The airport is now about 10 feet lower then the rest ... I catch finding what scenery I can use best.
"Runways.txt" is OK ! I don't know what you mean by "the Last Entry", so I send several.

*    ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_AEC\scenery\AEC_KDRO.bgl
*    Airport KDRO N37:09:05.4377  W107:45:13.5698  6650ft
              FSM A/P KDRO, lat=37.151516, long=-107.753769, alt=6650
*    Airport KDRO N37:09:05.4377  W107:45:13.5698  6683ft
          Runway 3 /21  centre: N37:09:05.4377  W107:45:13.5650  6683ft
              Computed start 3 : Lat 37.141476 Long -107.763365
              Computed start 21 : Lat 37.161549 Long -107.744172
              Hdg: 37.310 true (MagVar 11.700), ASPHALT, 9201 x 150 ft
              Primary ILS: IDRO  109.10 , Flags: GS BC
*    ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\ABP_KDRO.bgl
*    ORBX\FTX_GLOBAL\FTX_FTXG_AIRPORTS\scenery\ADE_FTX_FTXG_KDRO_CVX.bgl
*    ORBX\FTX_GLOBAL\FTX_FTXG_AIRPORTS\scenery\FTX_FTXG_KDRO_objects.bgl

What is the best way to compare "Vectors" with? With Landclass or Mesh or .....

This link  http://c-aviation.net/fsx-scenery-library-order-orbx-global/ is OK but is different from what I have used over the past 20 years ...
A positive message is that previously saved RC4.3 files from, for example, TUT 2, RC4.3 COMPLETELY WORKS !!! All functions, buttons, commands etc. work as it should be ! You will hear from me. We can also maintain private email contact.

Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guus,

You'll appreciate that situation is difficult for me as I have neither FSX nor ORBX KDRO. So I cannot replicate your problem.

I can only guide you as to the correct things to do to ensure RC4 works with addon scenery. That link you provided gives guidance on how the various scenery addons you have should be ordered in scenery library. For the few ORBX products I have the ordering follows their guidance so if you don't have yours setup that way please do so.

Over time changes in magnetic variation mean runway headings will change. The default runways for KDRO were set in 2005. ORBX has updated them to the correct designations.

I don't have Vectors but I believe it only adds additonal roads etc. It does not include Airports. Landclass and Mesh are just for enhanced terrain. They contain no airport data.

So please do this:-

Check your scenery library is the same as the guidance in the link. Airports at the top, Landclass / Terrain further down and default stuff at the bottom.

Make sure you have the latest MakeRwys v4.8.7.2 available here. https://forum.simflight.com/topic/66136-useful-additional-programs/

Place KDRO at the top of scenery library.

Start FSX and let it rebuild its indexes. Close it down and open Radar Contact. Rebuild the database.

Open f4.csv and find the entries for KDRO. Paste them into your reply.

There's no point in private emails since others who may have a similar problem won't know how it was solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Again, thanks for your responses.
I will put together the "Scenery DataBase" as well as possible.
I understand that continuing within the forum provides a more complete picture for others. No problem. [Hopefully with a good ending ...]. Maybe others also have interesting additions !  
Thanks for the "MakeRwys" update link ! I still had an old version.
I also understand that it must be difficult for you to give advice about software that you do not use. I am very happy with what you are telling me!
Actually the problems are getting bigger ... The "fsAearodata" update for FSX from NavAids 2005 to 2019 has now made ALL the VORs "invisible" ... So for now just put the old DataBase back ... I will focus more on why my previously saved flights within RC4.3 work well, and the new ones don't work.
I tried to make a completely new IFR flight with RC4.3 to see if the problem is related to KDRO. A flight in a Cessna 172 within Denmark.
However with the same problems. Items 4 - 5 do not work ! And AGAIN, I now believe that the "4" constant message in the green "Single Line Message" indicates an error message !!!
I just have to sleep 1 night to processing ALL those "Set Backs without" a real solution. Those are difficult for me ...

Greetings, Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the main general options page for FSUIPC make sure the option for a multi-line menu is set.  I have not "flown" for some time but I recall that was a common setup problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guus,

This is getting very difficult to analyse. In your first post you said “Suddenly I have a problem with uncontrolled airports...”. What changed on your system? That could be the reason.

Try this plan. EGCC HON WCO BNN EGLL.

That is a very simple plan from one controlled airport to another. Feed those waypoints into FSX planner. Locate your aircraft to EGCC and tell me what frequencies RC4 gives you. No need to fly the route. Just get airborne and wait until you’re told to contact Departure. Then you can abandon it and report back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ray and Ronzie,

Thanks you for your advice Ronzie. I have checked the "Multiline Display Window" and it was checked.
Yes, Ray, indeed a system change seems to be the cause! However, I don't know the exact moment of the change anymore ... (I spend 11 hours a day at the PC ...)

RC4.3 EGCC
Wx Brf: 128.17
Clearance: 121.70
Ground: 125.37
Tower: 119.52
Departure: 126.65
Approach: 126.65

Center: 118.77

From: "Runways.txt":
COM: Type = 8 (APPROACH), Freq = 118.57, Name = "MANCHESTER RADAR"
          COM: Type = 8 (APPROACH), Freq = 119.52, Name = "MANCHESTER RADAR"
          COM: Type = 8 (APPROACH), Freq = 121.35, Name = "MANCHESTER DIRECTOR"
          COM: Type = 1 (ATIS), Freq = 121.97, Name = "EGCC"
          COM: Type = 1 (ATIS), Freq = 128.17, Name = "EGCC"
          COM: Type = 7 (CLEARANCE), Freq = 121.70, Name = "MANCHESTER"
          COM: Type = 5 (GROUND), Freq = 121.70, Name = "MANCHESTER"
          COM: Type = 5 (GROUND), Freq = 121.85, Name = "MANCHESTER"
          COM: Type = 5 (GROUND), Freq = 125.37, Name = "MANCHESTER"
          COM: Type = 6 (TOWER), Freq = 118.62, Name = "MANCHESTER"
          COM: Type = 6 (TOWER), Freq = 119.40, Name = "MANCHESTER"

A "new" development is: I start TUT 1, KDSM and make this an uncontrolled airport. THEN item 4-5 works FINE !!! ??? I can ask FSS for a CLR. and he/she are requested to indicate a TAXI / RWY etc.!

It seems more and more that RC4.3 works well. But RC4.3 cannot make the "switch" to an FSS CLR (in the air or on the ground). WHAT (PC) info does this controller NEED is the question he/she does NOT get ...
Are those still FSX: Frequencies, or AIRAC, or FSUIPC, or saved files with ";" or with "Ctrl-Shft;" ...

Greetings from Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guus. That tells me there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with RC4.

As far as uncontrolled airports are concerned I have zero knowledge of how you interact with RC4 at those. It’s probably not a user choice but one dependent on which frequencies are available in f4.csv which is created by MakeRwys.

Doesn’t the tutorial in the manual explain the difference between a controlled and uncontrolled airport? If no ATIS or Clearance then I’m guessing it’s treated as uncontrolled.

I don’t understand your last sentence, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My meaning of the last sentence are possible causes who lead to this problem.

Partly yes. No ATIS (no transmitting equipment)  means: contact FSS for weather and CLR. Un-controlled means [in my opinion], no transmitting equipment to make 2-way communication with the airfield possible.

I will continue to solve this HARD Problem ... For now Ray, thanks for your pleasant contribution !

Regards, Guus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guus. You can eliminate FSUIPC as a potential cause of the problem. Same with the AIRAC data from Navigraph. I have a similar subscription from them for FMS data and there are no entries in scenery manager for it. Having the latest MakeRwys is important.

RC4 gets its information from MakeRwys which in turn gets it by scanning all BGLs from the folders listed in scenery.cfg. The priority of those entries is important. Scenery layers that have higher numbers take precedence over those with lower numbers.

So your addon ORBX airport - KDRO - should have a higher layer number than the default entry. That ensures the frequencies in its AFCAD BGL are used. You can check this by installing ADE (freeware) and loading the AFCAD BGL. It will have a name that includes ADE plus the airport ICAO - KDRO.

Hope that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THAT is a very good summary Ray ! I will follow this info correctly to the number.

You talk about "Higher numbers", probably you mean higher PRIORITY, which have LOWER numbers ... [Highest Priority = Lowest number (1)]. Defaults say something like: 161, ORBX say 26. Am I right ?

Guus.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Guus, If you open scenery library in FSX the scenery last installed appears first with a priority of 1. But look at that entry in scenery.cfg and it has the highest Layer number and is at the end of the file.

The contents of that file are effectively shown upside down in FSX. Looking at scenery library in FSX a priority number of 1 has greater priority than one of 10.

 

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray, My "scenery.cfg" is a static file from 22-08-2007. No ORBX or any other Add-On ?! I was expecting an up-to-date file with all Add-Ons present. And what should I check within (just installed) ADE ? The "Lists - Libraries Used" says "No Third Party Objects Used". I can not find info about "scenery library" [KDRO]. I update everything again to AIRAC 1906 .RC4.3, LittleNavMap and FSX. Again lots of "Ups and Downs" on KDRO Airfield, 4 scenery layers involved. and no VOR's at all in FSX ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guus. As far as I recall FSX does not have the option for scenery to be installed as an 'addon' as it can in P3D. I suggest you raise the question on the ORBX forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is an f4.csv in your sim folder. Backup your f4.csv in your RC/data folder and copy the one in your sim folder  to your rc4\data folder. This version in your sim folder is made by makerwys from your scenery files.

In your sim folder there is a file called runways.txt created by makerws.exe. That is a very large file which is a log of what makerwys has performed. The last entry section for your airport of interest is the one that has priority. Use a text editor (not notepad but winwors and search for I think "airport ICAO" until you get to the last one or two sections (two sections for an add-on and one for original scenery) until you find the last entries for that ICAO.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now