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Is ForceFeedback Fixed in FSX?

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Question for the ACES Team in regards to forcefeedback. In FS9 and the patch 9.1 there is a possible bug where sometimes on the ground you only get 3 fps when FF is enabled. Since this possible bug was missed in the patch I was wandering if it will be fixed in FSX or is FF just a feature that will go away?Jack

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I don't about the bug. What are the steps to reproduce it? If we can repro it here there's a chance we can fix it.In general, though, Force Feedback is a technology that we're not currently investing in.

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>TrackIR is it the same with that?>>And what do you mean with invest? It

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Tdragger,Thanks for the reply. I did call it a possible bug but do know I was one of many to have the problem and never heard, read or found an answer to fix the problem.Heres how to repro it. Enable FF. Thats about it. Its very random and what happens is no matter what the frames are that your getting in the air as soon as you are on the ground its a flat 3FPS. Dont happen all the time and not attached to any fields but do remember it happening in default scenery and at KSEA.When FS9 first came out many people spoke of it and it didnt seem to be any system parts like video card or cpu things.Heres some search topicshttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchLike I said, never found an answer for it but I do like using FF. Not for realism by holding the joystick but I like the rattle my joystick gives on the ground. Adds to noises one would find in a small a/c and really gives a feeling of rolling. I have my joystick beside my yoke btw so I really dont use the feel of FF but the sound that it can make.Jack

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that means that no (or very little) resources have been scheduled to improve or enhance FF capabilities.Not surprising really, as it doesn't really add anything and isn't a factor for most users (as most users don't use it).

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We don't develop TrackIR. It's developed by a company called Natural Point.

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>that means that no (or very little) resources have been>scheduled to improve or enhance FF capabilities.>Not surprising really, as it doesn't really add anything and>isn't a factor for most users (as most users don't use it).>can you show me stats that prove "most" users don't use it?? I love FF and that is one of the main reasons I prefer my joystick over the CH yoke. Really sad to hear MS isn't interested in FF, I feel it adds a lot to the experience, be it realistic or not, it's better than no feeling.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

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Well I imagine the prevalent reason for the decision to "not invest in FF" is because there are very few FF joysticks on the market. My personal favorite(s) were the MS Sidewinder FF joysticks but for whatever reason Microsoft ceased production of its game peripherals. That decision certainly didn't help in proliferating the technology.

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I am surprised that CH Products don't create a FF yoke. There is ample evidence in the motorsport game world that FF adds much to the immersion factor.I think that well executed FF would be great in flights sims as well.I too find Jwenting's comments odd and while there is some element of truth, I believe the lack of adoption is mainly through the lack of devices rather than lack of interest. I sure hope the ACES team put some effort into this area eventually.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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I use FSForce and IMO it's brilliant, far better than the default used in FS.I'm happy with that, and if future versions of FSForce work with FSX then I have no reason to complain :)James

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>We don't develop TrackIR. It's developed by a company called>Natural Point.Yep, I should have been more clear. I am just hoping those API's that Natural Point use are still there and work with whatever virtual cockpit enhancements that we might see.Thanks

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They are not using any APIs. The are using bad memory-poking voodoo which broke as soon as we compiled the first build of FSX. :(

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Chris, <>The main problem is that there's no money to be made in hardware unless you have huge volumes and/or amazing margins. That's why Microsoft got out of the game hardware business and I'm pretty sure why CH doesn't offer FF devices. They cost more to produce but the number of customers willing to pay the added price required to maintain the same margin as a non-FF device is small.<>Flying is different from driving and let me know when you've found that 'well executed FF'. ;) I know many people swear by FSForce but in our experience FF in a civilian flight game never lived up to its potential. I don't think a single person on the FS team uses a FF stick as their main input device.<>The two are inextricably linked. It's the great thing about a free market economy. ;)<>Unless the market dynamics change or there's a true revolution in the way FF is implemented I would not hold your breath.

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>that means that no (or very little) resources have been>scheduled to improve or enhance FF capabilities.>Not surprising really, as it doesn't really add anything and>isn't a factor for most users (as most users don't use it).>I used to use FF when I was flying with a joystick, when I switched to a yoke I was forced to give up FF since there were (are?) no yokes with FF. FF was neat, but I really can't say that I miss it.

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Mike,>Flying is different from driving and let me know when you've>found that 'well executed FF'. ;) > Granted I don't have a lot of rw stick time (probably 12-15 hrs all up), but I do have quite a few hours in a racing car driving at speeds that was considered to be reasonably competitive.To replicate the feeling, I combine the Logitech Driving Force Pro, with the Advantage 1 three pedal set and a racing sim called rFactor. The effects produced are very good, certainly enough to provide a level of immersion much greater than that without a ff device.I take your point about the forces involved and the differences with each mode of travel, however I still feel that it's more of a case of "If you build it, they will come...".>Unless the market dynamics change or there's a true revolution>in the way FF is implemented I would not hold your breath.>Oh well, I guess it's a bit of wishful thinking then.Thanks for your view, it was much appreciated.Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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>I used to use FF when I was flying with a joystick, when I>switched to a yoke I was forced to give up FF since there were>(are?) no yokes with FF. FF was neat, but I really can't say>that I miss it.Same here. It would be nice if someone would build a FF yoke. The other reason I ditched the (Microsoft) FF joystick was because of the 1-2 frame per second bug that would happen when you land.

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I wonder how hard it would be to mod a yoke for FF? Anyone have any ideas? I have no clue myself, heck it may not be possible even, but I'm darn curious. I personally haven't experienced a frame rate drop on landing with my FF2. I suppose I could fly with the frame display up and land to see if it drops, but I usually pay too much attention to what I'm doing while landing to bother trying to notice 1 or 2 frames dropped..-Jeremy Burchhttp://home.earthlink.net/~dawgfighter/sit...es/swvasig1.gifSWVA4806 http://www.virtualswa.com/home.phpThe Ozark Dogfighter http://forums.avsim.net/images/wedge.gifHappy Flying!BOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723HC: British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, Heathrow Centre, go aheadBOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723 has a message for youHC: British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, Heathrow Centre is ready to copy messageBOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, message is as follows: Mayday, Mayday, Mayday ....

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>I wonder how hard it would be to mod a yoke for FF? Anyone>have any ideas? I have no clue myself, heck it may not be>possible even, but I'm darn curious. Yes, I was thinking the same as I was typing my response to Mike earlier in this thread. I was wondering how one could modify a racing sim FF wheel to accept a yoke but also to add another servo/stepper motor that would provide a force affecting a pitch axis.It seemed pretty difficult, hence the lack of an appropriate offering out there I guess. A pity that Logitech who make a huge range of racing wheels as well as joysticks don't become interested.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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Joysticks is very versatile. Yokes is only really useful for civil flight sims. Of course you can use Yokes with racing games as well but then wheels are superior.But I don

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>Flying is different from driving and let me know when you've>found that 'well executed FF'. ;) I know many people swear by>FSForce but in our experience FF in a civilian flight game>never lived up to its potential. I don't think a single person>on the FS team uses a FF stick as their main input device.FSForce corrects the elevator trim issue in FS! That's why I'm using it, NOT for FF (primarily).Just want to ask, is the trim issue is ever going to be resolved in FS or Microsoft is unfamiliar with it?

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>What is the "trim issue"?Well, that's just great!And it's one of those FS Developers asks me!You really think the elevator trim in FS works like one on a real aircraft?

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