5 hours ago, b1bmsgt said:

I really wish they had moved ahead on RC5

Couldn't agree more.

 

1 hour ago, Taver said:

Default ATC tip. When you are flying an IFR plan and need to step away stay at the controls until ATC asks to handoff to next frequency. Don't  answer till you get back. It will not cancel the IFR plan and you can pick it up when you get back. This works great for long flights. 

I've done this myself - not only on long flights, but also in situations where default ATC can't handle the flight profile of the aircraft I'm flying.  For example, it can't deal with propliners and their long, shallow descents. So when I'm going somewhere in, say, the PMDG DC-6, I skip the handoff soon after departure and check back in once I'm ready to pick up vectors for the approach.  Works beautifully.

Speaking of debates I don't want to get into, there's the always popular P3D vs. X-Plane one.  So I'll just mention in passing that, in my current flirtation with X-Plane 11, I've been enjoying the combination of self-vectoring and the X-ATC Chatter plugin, which provides canned Live ATC clips under license.  You can select your ATC facility by category (tower, departure, center, approach, etc.) and select your region.  All the geographic identifiers have been edited out so the chatter is generic to the general region you're in.  It's a nice combination of accuracy (thanks to the procedures that you fly on your own) and atmosphere (thanks to the chatter).  The downside is that, even with thousands of clips, there's a fair amount of repetition - it gets annoying when you're listening to clearance, less so when you're airborne and busy with other stuff.  In all, not a bad compromise. I know there are Live ATC products for P3D, but they all involve some work to set up.  This is turnkey. I'd be up for something similar in P3D if a developer wanted to go to the trouble of putting it together.  Noted in order to flag yet another kind of less-bad solution.

On 8/16/2019 at 1:20 PM, Alan_A said:

We're miles away from a really effective ATC product that would be AI-driven

Well not really, in all ATC's I've tested they all contribute to something that available now, for example, the default can vector and sequence all traffic, some have sid/stars, others good with voice ATC ect...

However having said that my take is that unless payware ATC have access to full default ATC AI no one will ever build a proper ATC. Perhaps that's why RC gave up because they could only do it to the  maximum extent possible, and why other ATC's are, how should I put it ... "lacking".

 

3 hours ago, Alan_A said:

The downside is that, even with thousands of clips, there's a fair amount of repetition

At least XP is working on it and the problem is that editing the chatter is very time consuming.

I'm really hoping at this point that MS give us an ATC worth the wait.

23 hours ago, FPStewy said:

Well not really, in all ATC's I've tested they all contribute to something that available now

Agreed, though I think we're talking about somewhat different things.  I take your point that each of the current payware ATC products offers some procedural element that are accurate - and you're right, that suggests that it should be possible for some developer to roll them together into a more complete product.

What I was describing is something different - an AI-driven program that wouldn't just do procedures, it'd capture the improvised nature of real ATC.  IIRC, Austin Meyer has talked about doing something like that for X-Plane, including AI pilots who make mistakes.  I still remember a real-world GA flight (I was a passenger) where another pilot had a problem distinguishing right from left.  "Eighty-Two Lima, that is not, repeat not, a left turn you're doing! One Papa Delta, do you have the traffic turning in front of you?" That's what I mean by fully authentic AI ATC, and it's going to be a while before we get there.

X-ATC Chatter is a third-party add-on, not a native X-Plane feature (X-Plane does have background chatter, but not as extensive or well-organized).  The problem with the repetition has to do, I think, with limits on how much Live ATC content can be licensed, and the work involved in customizing the clips by stripping out the geographic references. 

I agree about MSFS 2020 - it'd be nice, to put it mildly, if they'd put improved ATC on their list.  They have the resources to get it right (or at least better) - we'll have to see what priority, if any, they give it.