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How about multi monitor support in full screen?

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Currently, us dual monitor "flyers" pretty much HAVE to run the sim in windowed mode if we want to use the second monitor for non-sim stuff (web browser, charts etc). Would it be possible to have the sim run in full screen on one monitor while the other is in windowed mode? I seem to recall fs2002 did that but it was a long time ago and I might remember it wrong.

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Guest tdragger

<Not really, at least without a lot of work that would likely be very buggy. Making DirectX and Windows place nice together is very, very difficult. Ever wonder why so few games do windowed mode and/or multi-mon?

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Guest wingnut2

Ok, but if possible can we use FS in full screen mode and use Windows on a second monitor without it minimising?Also (and this is more important!), can we keep sound when switching from FS to Windows? thanx.John.

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Guest wingnut2

> Wash, rinse, repeat. I am unsure what this means? but I know those things are easily doable ;)

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Guest tdragger

<>Well, then you know than the esteemed Mr. Lacey, who was unable to get this to work before he left. If you know how, his position is still open. ;)

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Guest wingnut2

hehe to be honest I do Java and have no idea how to program it :-lol

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>hehe to be honest I do Java and have no idea how to program>it :-lol Well, why are you embarrasing yourself then by making silly statements? ;)

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Guest wingnut2

Theres thousands of Windows app's that play sound in the background. It can't be rocket science ;)

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>Ok, but if possible can we use FS in full screen mode and use>Windows on a second monitor without it minimising?>>Also (and this is more important!), can we keep sound when>switching from FS to Windows? thanx.>>John.Your question can be interpreted two way:1. Is it possible to run full screen DirectX 3D on one screen and Windows (IDE) on the other and keep sound as you switch focus between FS and some Windows app.2. Is it possible to keep sound while running FS in Windowed mode and you're switching to some other Windows app.The answer to the first question should be 'no' because, as TDragger points out, running full screen DirextX and IDE in parallel, on different monitors, is too difficult. This would mean it's impossible to switch between FS and an IDE app without FS getting minimised.The answer to question 2 would be 'yes' because I do that all the time.

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><one monitor while the other is in windowed mode?>>>>Not really, at least without a lot of work that would likely>be very buggy. Making DirectX and Windows place nice together>is very, very difficult. Ever wonder why so few games do>windowed mode and/or multi-mon?OK, could you please make the FS Window fully configurable so we can loose the title bar and frame (this would serve the same purpose as full screen as far as I'm concerned)? I know Windows can do this easily so it should only be a matter of supplying the tools to configure. This should be a matter of adding a check box to the 'Display' config page or, even better, have a third Alt+Enter state (less than a days work for you guys). If that's too much, just support another (documented) entry in the fsx.cfg... :-smoochPlease?

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Guest

No. You can have either a single fullscreen DX application (and remember that multiple screens are treated as a single screen with multiple output devices by Windows and DirectX both) or a number of windowed applications.I don't think you can even have multiple windowed DirectX applications running at the same time (at least I've never seen it) if you'd want that.

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Guest wingnut2

Genius! Simply adding the code to remove the title bar in windowed mode would do it :)With everything changing in Vista/DX10 I wonder if these kinds of issues will be easily solved? Maybe in one line of code :(

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>Genius! Simply adding the code to remove the title bar in>windowed mode would do it :)>>With everything changing in Vista/DX10 I wonder if these kinds>of issues will be easily solved? Maybe in one line of code :(Well, by having the bottom Windows menu bar "auto hide," and switching off the FS9 menu bar, the only thing remaining on my main monitor is a single, narrow Window's "title bar" at the top of the screen.I find that acceptable, and can happily undock and move stuff to any of six additional monitors. ;)

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Guest tdragger

>Genius! Simply adding the code to remove the title bar in>windowed mode would do it :)>>With everything changing in Vista/DX10 I wonder if these kinds>of issues will be easily solved? Maybe in one line of code :(You don't really believe that do you? Feel free to continue brainstorming/speculating but this ain't gonna happen. We had to make some pretty substantial changes to fix other problems with our windowing system (such as the inability to move popup windows to secondary devices in full screen mode).The fallout is that the new system works differently that it did before and if you want access to non-FS windows while flying you're going to have to run in windowed mode. Period. In fact, it's likely you'll be disappointed by many changes to the new version but it's a classic two-steps-forward, one-step-back result of innovating on an existing platform.That said, I think you will really like some of the new functionality. Plus, you did give me inspiration for a new blog post : http://blogs.msdn.com/tdragger/archive/200.../11/530201.aspx.

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Guest wingnut2

Yes I believed it. It sounds like the designers of Windows/DX are making your job more complicated than what it should be :) Forgive my ignorance here but I imagined one line of code could do it like such: window.setTitleBar(false)But thats obviously not the case :D

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>Theres thousands of Windows app's that play sound in the>background. It can't be rocket science ;)Actually, I think the others had missed the audio part of your post and were commenting on the DirectX FullScreen vs Windowed aspects of the thread :->Well behaved DirectSound apps are supposed to stop playing audio and give up the audio device when they lose focus (at least that's what the docs say :->).As to the undoc'd windows and DirectX, I'm amazed that Steve Lacey (and Todd Laney before him) were able to get these to play somewhat "nice" together in the first place :-> When I originally designed the undoc'd window feature (back when the internal name of the product was FS5W - Flight Sim for Windows, which eventually became FS95) we were still doing solely software rendering, so it was much easier to get that to work :->.Tim

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Guest

So another FS dev comes out of the wood work :) I guess there are 3 here now?

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>>Making DirectX and Windows place nice together>is very, very difficult.Hmm. Ironic? Aren't these both made by the same developer? (Microsoft?) Or do I get to learn something new today?

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Microsoft is large enough that the teams might as well be different companies.Having worked for multinationals I can tell you that more often than not one side of a building doesn't know what the other side is doing.I've worked on a project once where we found out that another group in the same city (but belonging to a different department so we had no direct communications) was working on EXACTLY the same thing we were and had been for a year.That's 20 people each in 2 teams (for 40 people) working 12 months on something that could have been done by 30 people in 8 months.The larger a company gets the more bureaucratic it gets and the harder it is to get any meaningful communications working between interested parties. In this case the two groups were initially quite unaware of each others' existence. It was only when we both approached the same 3rd department for their services that someone somewhere noticed that our projects were surprisingly similar and started asking questions about why 2 million dollar projects were doing exactly the same thing...

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Guest tdragger

Actually that's not really the case here. The DirectX team is part of the Windows team and so are fully up to speed at what the "other" is doing. The reasons have more to do with what each technology is designed to do. (Isn't it funny how things that people think are "broken" turn out to be the result of careful design? )The primary consumer of DirectX technologies is the gaming industry and, by and large, games have not had much use for windowed mode or multiple displays. I mean, do you really want to be answering email while you're playing a first-person shooter?! Times are changing, though, and more and more people are buying video cards capable of multiple outputs. That's why you see developments like DX10 with GPU virtualization that will enable multiple DX applications to peacefully co-exist.So, despite jwenting's pass off as big company-itis, what you see is just a by product of FS being a bit outside the mainstream (or ahead of it's time, if you prefer) of the gaming world. ;)

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>Actually that's not really the case here. The DirectX team is>part of the Windows team and so are fully up to speed at what>the "other" is doing. The reasons have more to do with what>each technology is designed to do. (Isn't it funny how things>that people think are "broken" turn out to be the result of>careful design? )>>The primary consumer of DirectX technologies is the gaming>industry and, by and large, games have not had much use for>windowed mode or multiple displays. I mean, do you really want>to be answering email while you're playing a first-person>shooter?! Times are changing, though, and more and more people>are buying video cards capable of multiple outputs. That's why>you see developments like DX10 with GPU virtualization that>will enable multiple DX applications to peacefully co-exist.>>So, despite jwenting's pass off as big company-itis, what you>see is just a by product of FS being a bit outside the>mainstream (or ahead of it's time, if you prefer) of the>gaming world. ;)[shrugs shoulders] Well then I can't say I learned something new - I always knew FS was ahead of it's time :)

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