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Guest Peter Sidoli

Declare Emergencies to ATC

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Guest jrobert

Please tell me that you'll be able to declare emergencies to ATC in the new FSX. There's nothing worse than having an engine out and then being told by the tower to "go around" or that you're "number 4 for landing."Regards,Joshua Robertson (creator of FS Real Time)3D Softworks Design Studioshttp://www.3dsoftworks.net

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Guest Knikolaes

That's when I land anyway and when I get yelled at for "you weren't cleared to land" I subconsciously tell them to shove it . . .LOLHence I agree with you -- ATC options are my ONE and ONLY wish for FSX. Everything else is just eye candy to me.

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Guest tdragger

I hear ya. This is one of the most requested enhancements to ATC we see on the tell_fs alias--right up there with SIDS and STARS.

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Guest Knikolaes

**smiles** That would be a wonderful edition. SIDS, STARS and Emergencies . . . While we are on the subject of ATC -- this is sort of related -- will AI have appropriate spacing? Or are there plans for such separation procedures? I know it is posible as AI Smooth accomplished this to a point, which helps the 20 aircraft on the glideslope dilimma . . .

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Guest

that falls under a better ATC which I would really love to see more than anything. Better spacing both in the air and on the ground, not clearing a slow cessna to land with a row of heavies behind forcing them all to overrun and go around. or having tons of aircraft holding at the runway because an airplane is just cleared to land 10 miles away

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Guest Knikolaes

Interesting. I never knew that bit. :-) And speed control is a big desire on this end as well. It kind of falls under the separation I mentioned above.And I never really thoight about that other isue with the distance either -- it WOULD be nice for aircraft to do thir takeoffs while another is on approach to a certain distance. If there was a modeling perspective that would monitor the aircraft type (even just 3 catagories - GA, light and heavy or soemthing like that) to assess how far way the approaching AC needs to be before holding up the takeoff line . . .

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Guest jrobert

Another thing I'd like to hear is when you enter an airspace without permission. In real life, you have to request permission for an airspace transision *before* entering the airspace. Flightsim is kind of backwards in that respect: You enter an airspace and then request a transision through it!? That doesn't make sence. Or what about the restricted airspaces such as TFRs or even military control zones?Regards,Joshua Robertson (creator of FS Real Time)3D Softworks Design Studioshttp://www.3dsoftworks.net

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Guest freff

I would like F16s to come escort you out of the ADIZ or other restricted areas if you do not use proper procedures or violate airspace. FS is good practice for many things and it would be super cool to also have up to date TFR info loaded along with weather. The AOPA downloads this info and displays it in their free flight planning software, so the data must be available and parsable. It should probably be a checkbox on/off feature in the sim as I can hear the complainers now talking about how they got shot down/escorted because they forgot to check for that presidental TFR around Crawford, TX or other area. There is more to building a world that seems alive than adding birds. :-)Oh yeah, the DC ADIZ laser warning light system would be cool too.

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In real life, you have to request>permission for an airspace transision *before* entering the>airspace. I think this is only true when approaching Bravo class airspace, C class you only need to have established communications

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Guest jrobert

There are some C-class airspaces which require you to request permission before entering and there are some that don't. The general rule-of-thumb that I've been taught is that when in doubt, get permission first.Regards,Joshua Robertson (creator of FS Real Time)3D Softworks Design Studioshttp://www.3dsoftworks.net

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No. If you need permission to enter, then its class "B". What you DO need in Class C is to have your aircraft call sign called and two way communication stablished before entering the airspace. Then, unless they tell you to stay clear of the airspace, you can enter without actual clearance.

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Class C airspace requires:"Two-way radio communications must be established and maintained with ATC before entering and while operating in class C airspace."e.g. an acknowlegement of a transponder code from atc is establishment of radio communications. That is "permission" for class C.Class B requires a prior clearance before entering("permission"), and two way radio communications e.g. you must hear the words :"you are cleared into the class Bravo airspace".There was a famous incident where I live where a pilot called the Detroit class B airspace-made radio contact and got a xpder code-and proceeded into the class B. He was busted as he had not been given the magic words "cleared into class Bravo airspace".For operating in class C-the xpder code would have been sufficient to enter as that is the establishment of radio communications.Speaking of emergencies-to do this right imho would require an incredible complexity of programming time that could be better served in the "regular" atc.As one who has had more than my fair share of emergencies (call me unlucky-or lucky to have survived them all)-each one required a unique response both from me and atc. A few I have had, and different responses.A prop overspeed-request to climb high,power back to a slow speed, and request an unusually high approach to the airport. Atc initially provides a heading and vector-then clears traffic.Altimeter/static malfunction(alt,vsi,fluctuating 1000 ft. each direction)in imc over smoky mountains-explaining to center that I will be following my hnadheld gps readout and a request to let me know the second 100 ft. off their transponder read altitude (never happened-aren't handhelds a great backup!?). Request to clear any traffic around me.(I also had a runaway autopilot due to the malfunction and a prop overspeed all at once but didn't bother to explain those to atc at the time-was too busy).Landing gear malfunction at towered airport-request to fly by tower and get visual confirmation gear is down-fire trucks following at landing.Landing gear malfunction at uncontrolled field-same visual confirmation request from FBO persons and then discussion with them as to the best place (airport) to fly to repair it.Rough engine-request immediate landing-cleared to land on any runway-traffic cleared by atc.Vacuum failure in imc-no gyro approach-talking to atc about min. vectoring alt. in each sector in effort to get below clouds.Broken muffler-again climb to high altitude-clear traffic on active runway and cleared for high slipping approach.Alternator out-call approach control-explain turning off all electrical systems-need light gun signals for landing.On all my "emergencies" I never used the "e" word. They know when you tell them what is going on what the situation is-and usually much less paperwork afterwords for everyone. Even not declaring officially-I still had to fill out some paperwork for fire trucks that showed up that the tower called out on a few.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Guest FLC  C.E.O.

Geofa,We'll just have to wait and see what MS does or doesn't do in this area but in almost all of your events traffic was cleared and gave you priority. I think thats what most users want. Dial 7700 on the Transponder and ATC vectors you to the closest field and clears all traffic.Dial in 7600 and you get a light gun at fields that you would normally and all traffic is cleared. I enjoy flying with FSFailure and get my share radio failures and what not. I dont know why other users request an emergency feature but I personally know that I would a feature like that in the way I sim. All I care about is to have traffic cleared and be vectored to the cloest field the type of a/c I am using can land at.

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Guest BlueRidgeDx

>On all my "emergencies" I never used the "e" word. They know>when you tell them what is going on what the situation is-and>usually much less paperwork afterwords for everyone. Even not>declaring officially-I still had to fill out some paperwork>for fire trucks that showed up that the tower called out on a>few.What paperwork did you have to fill out exactly? Did you deviate from an FAR?I have declared no less than six emergencies as a dispatcher, for such things as a Gear Down Disagree, loss of pressurization, ground spoiler deployment in flight, runaway pitch trim/loss of mach trim, engine failure, and a suspected massive fuel leak.Not once have I or any of my crews ever had to "fill out paperwork".There's is NO reason not to declare an emergency if there is ANY concern over the safety of the aircraft. Declaring the emergency gets you the controller's FULL attention, gets you priority to the airport or runway of your choice, gets you ARFF support, and gets you anything else you deem necessary in the interest of safety.Your story of reluctance to declare is not the first I've heard from a GA pilot. Why are people so afraid to ask for the support they need? Nick

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I had to fill out paperwork for fire trucks the tower sent out (not requested by me..)-once when I was unsure about my gear and the other time when I stated that I had a rough engine. No deviation from any FAR.As I have mentioned-not declaring an emergency gets me the same service,and I have been told (by several instructors/controllers)officially declaring can cause not only paperwork on everyone's end, and possible FAA interaction-if you are working for a commercial carrier I am sure there is someone who takes care of all that-GA drivers are probably more vulnerable. Since stating what your problem is,is very accurate, and still gets the full attention, (all of what you have mentioned has occured every time-full attention, priority)-seems to work fine. I personally would reserve the "e" word for an off airport landing/engine failure. Also, if flying vfr and not getting vfr flight following, which I never do. If you are in positive control with a controller-no reason to squawk emergency-they already have you-and they are already talking to you. If they didn't give full attention/service,and I felt safety was compromised, I would obviously declare an official emergency-just haven't found it necessary-got the same results-safety not compromised,and everyone seems happy at the end of the day.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Guest Peter Sidoli

NickI must admit I dont like to declare an emergency. A month back I was flying a Citation at night out of London going to Majorca. Passing FL240 over the English Channel a burning smell followed by accrid smoke pouring out of the air vents forced me to make a request for an immediate return to Biggin Hill.We were asked for the nature of the problem and and on hearing the problem were given a direct course and descent towards Biggin.The Controller asked whether we wished to declare an emergency. As the level of smoke was diminishing the controller accepted a precautionary emergency but in reality we were handled as an emergency.Two weeks before that in the same aircraft at Dublin we had no nosegear showing on the approach.We didnt declare an emergency but discussed the problem with ATC.We made a fly past for a 767 to watch us and to check the dangly bits and then we flew off into a holding pattern while we carried out retraction and extension tests.Finally we had all three greens and made a normal landing. We felt all along that the problem was a contact problem and not a gear problem as such, although on landing we had half a dozen fire engines waiting for us ;-)Like Geoff I have had my fiar share of problems including one full engine failure and two partials and to date have never said those dreaded words "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday".I think its a little dramatic and over the Top. I would rather the Phrase was changed to "xyz is declaring an emergency".I am not alone or unusual in this reluctance as most pilots I know are also very hesitant in saying those three words :-)In most GA aircraft the passengers are much closer and involved with the operations at the sharp end.They hear all the TAWS warnings all the buzzers and whistles and even some of the pilot conversations.Even in small jets this is the case and it is important not to frighten the passengers more that need be.In the smoke incident I am sure they all thought they were going to die anyway.We both turned around every thirty odd seconds with fixed cheesy grins. We peared through the fog to instill a level of confidence in our passengers that we werent really that bothered.Peter

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