I recently moved to XPlane11 from FSX and rebought the Garmin 750 for XPlane today.

I've spent hours trying to get it to install and like many other people here am having the same problem with access being denied.

At this point I'm completely turned off XPlane11 and would just prefer my money back.

How do I progress ?  I don't see any other options elsewhere.

 

Cheers

 

Ben

 

Couple of points to note here;

I use BitDefender, Windows 10 Enterprise, XPlane11, FSX, Preepar3d.

Today I bought XPlane11  GTN750. I Installed the trainer without issue.
When it came to Xplane GTN750, the problems started.

1. It is is from an unsigned publisher, and therefore does not get the same security clearance a 'trusted installer' would, which leads to some issues.
2. I also met the dreaded malware trajan issue and got by this by disabling my BitDefender.
3. That got me past the virus issue but then I kept getting the 'Access Denied' issue.  I spent several hours debugging this and I eventually got it to install.
3.1 I Installed it to a clean laptop with Norton Utilities and nothing else.  It installed fine. (I had to copy my xplane11.exe to it too)
3.2 I then copied the entire GTN installed folder and files to a USB. From C:\Program Files(x86)
3.3 Next I copied that over the FUBARd version and again met the 'Access Denied' problem.
3.4 I eventually got to checking folder permissions and it seems that the folders created are created with messed up UAC.
3.5 I then set the folder to be owned by me and the files on the USB to be owned by me.
3.6 I then rebooted to allow the UAC changes to take effect
3.7 After logging back in I copied the files without issue.

4.0 The installer.  Is some 2008 era piece of rubbish and not up to Windows 10 level. It is unfit for purpose.
4.1 The installer forces installation to the C:\Program Files(x86) folder, when it should not.  It should allow install to any folder.
4.2 Because the installer is unsigned and the publisher not trusted the files being copied (to a secure folder) cause the UAC errors.

I now have it all installed all-be-it, I now have a $49 black screen to look at.

Ben

 

An update to my debugging

Long story short; It now works.

The XP11 GTN installer 'assumes' the trainer will be installed to the C drive, where-as I (and most other users in 2019 using SSD drives) will install to a different drive than the main OS drive. 

The XP11 GTN installer does not set as standard, the required environment variables, expecting the user to be 1.  a PC genius and 2. have any clue what the manual is on about in the first place.

So, what I did.

I created the necessary environment variables and pointed them to the correct database paths etc. (The manual is in fact wrong in one of the locations)
I rebooted and still got the black screen.  
I checked the logs in C:\ProgramData (again, this is bad practise, log files should be stored with the app) and found that one of the dlls was missing.  It had been quarantined by BitDefender.  I restored this.  Which raised another questions.  Why are there multiple copies of the same dll in different directories?

Anyways, after that it now runs fine.

A few pointers to the Publisher to save some angst and angy people..

A. Become a trusted publisher
B. Invest in an uptodate installer.  This 2008 stuff is garbage.
C. By default, ensure the trainer is already installed.
C-1 By doing that you ensure you can 1. Find it, and 2. Create and point the environment variable to that location.

Closing comments;
Expecting sim users to know what an environment variable is in the first place is expecting a lot.  Expecting them to know how to set them is even worse.  tiny subscripts at the end of the page just doesn't cut it.

Not being a trusted publisher opened this can of worms.  It set in motion a stream of increasingly difficult issues to solve.  Firstly, it caused the anti-virus to deny access and then quarantine the files.  Secondly, it then caused windows UAC to cough and deny access.

Having been a software developer since '79, I can state unequivocally, the cause for all these issues are with the publisher.  Not any anti-virus software and not any aircraft publisher.  The facts speak for themselves.

 Hopefully this breakdown of fixes will help others.  And not be relied on by the publisher as their 'quick fix'.

 

Ben

 

Hi Ben,

I have been a simmer  30+ yrs and this / your  post just about sums up mine and probably a lot of others true feelings. 

Back in the days of Windows 95 through the full windows upgrades to now Windows 10 latest creation (1903 )  I have travelled with Bill Gates 

Way back then maybe Windows 7-8 not sure  ( so long ago ) I purchased Reality XP 530  yes STATE of the art addon  , well I used Capitals for state !! for 1 reason

30yrs on it is still in a STATE !!,

I feel like Ive been there and done that all before because yes like others I am staring once again at a black screen !! just like in the old days.

Foolishly I re-purchased the Reality XP- 750  X plane version thinking yeah installation has got to have improved, WRONG !!. it is still as complicated to get running as it was way back then.

Shame on the developers as you rightly say Ben, they have had ample time to create a one off installer by now.. but No !!.

I now have BT internet broadband (top end package ) running the  Mc fee Anti Virus version  screaming MALWARE at me taking the fore said xxxx 32dll mentioned in various other posts and removing and into quarantine .

Try to install the programme through to back door ie. turn off scanning ect for the shortest possible time to allow install, as soon as restart is done or anti virus restarts...  BT-Mc fee kicks into action the full bells, whistles, flashing lights,  alarms kick off and our  xxxx- 32 dll is thrown back into quarantine bin, tell Mc fee to ignore and reinstall NO WAY back to quarantine within a minute.

There is a saying . If nothing changes things will stay the same !!

This is certainly true with this programme . 

1 Frustrated ??   Yes certainly am !!, 

2 Angry ?? No !!

3 Why ? this silly old fool from past experience  should have known better. leave credit card in wallet.

Ps, I just wanted to be a simmer enjoying my hobby and purchases to enhance the experience , NOT take a computer code writing coarse, in between flights to rectify what seems the short fall of this programmes coding over the years !!

Thanks for reading, 

Nev

 

Hi,

We're sorry for the unexpected out-the-box experience with your Reality XP product.

I'm certain this is something which can get solved and I'd suggest you fully use your 30 days window prior proceeding with a refund, which should be ample time to sort this out.

@BenSollis @Nevs. I'll further address your points later, this is a long list so please allow me some time to answer.

Hi,

We're constantly improving our operations and products thanks to our customer's feedback and I thank you for your suggestions.

Let me try to answer most of your questions:

 

On 8/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, BenSollis said:

4.0 The installer.  Is some 2008 era piece of rubbish and not up to Windows 10 level. It is unfit for purpose.
4.1 The installer forces installation to the C:\Program Files(x86) folder, when it should not.  It should allow install to any folder.
4.2 Because the installer is unsigned and the publisher not trusted the files being copied (to a secure folder) cause the UAC errors.

First, the installer (Innosetup) is a widely used modern solution and it is certainly designed to meet Win10 specifics.

It might just be we're miss-configuring some of its settings though?

As for installing in "C:\Program Files" I'll refer to the "Windows Installer and Logo Requirements" found here:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/windows-installer-and-logo-requirements

2.4: On initialization, the installer sets a property to the full path of the Program Files folder. When you prepare the installation package you can specify that the installer install your application to this folder by default. If you also include a UI in your package, the installer can provide users with an option to select another installation location.

NB: "can" doesn't mean "should". This folder exists for a purpose with a special set of ACL specifically crafted to shield the user from messing up its system.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, BenSollis said:

3.2 I then copied the entire GTN installed folder and files to a USB. From C:\Program Files(x86)
3.3 Next I copied that over the FUBARd version and again met the 'Access Denied' problem.

You can't just manually copy files around.

In effect, the product installs several components. Some are simulator family specific (XPlane, FltSim), some are simulator version specific (XPlane 64 vs 32, P3D vs FSX etc...) and others are shared simulator agnostic components (code and data files). Some components are installed in "C:\Program Files" while others in "C:\ProgramData" like they should.

Therefore it is not monolithic an installation and we must handle all these cases, including customers using different simulators with the same installation.

Mind you we're not taking too much of your SSD drive (only around 25MB).

 

On 8/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, BenSollis said:

3.4 I eventually got to checking folder permissions and it seems that the folders created are created with messed up UAC.

Both our installers and our product comply with the UAC guidelines.

We'll never force you to 'run as-admin' and as a matter of fact you can search this forum the many posts where I discourage our customers to run anything 'as-admin' unless it is an admin tool and they know what they are doing.

The installer will prompt you for elevation if needed, and the product will automatically handle any elevation requirement gracefully if needed too.

Q: can you please detail what is "messed up" exactly?

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:33 PM, BenSollis said:

C. By default, ensure the trainer is already installed.
C-1 By doing that you ensure you can 1. Find it, and 2. Create and point the environment variable to that location.

The Reality XP GTN doesn't assume anything about the trainer installation.

Instead, the Garmin GTN trainer installer sets specific registry keys indicating where you did install the trainer, the database, the launcher etc... The RXP GTN therefore uses these registry and additional heuristics to automatically detect and validate your GTN trainer installation version and path(s).

The RXP product checks this both during installation and at runtime.

We also provide an 'override' mechanism via environment variables which is documented in the User's Manual but you shouldn't need to even use this unless you'd like to experiment running different GTN trainer versions.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:33 PM, BenSollis said:

The manual is in fact wrong in one of the locations)

I do appreciate you've spotted an error, I'd appreciate even more you documented what error this is!

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:33 PM, BenSollis said:

I checked the logs in C:\ProgramData (again, this is bad practise, log files should be stored with the app)

The RXP log files are never written to this path.

Instead, they are written in the "My Documents" folder as it is documented in the RXP User's Manual.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:33 PM, BenSollis said:

Having been a software developer since '79, I can state unequivocally, the cause for all these issues are with the publisher.  Not any anti-virus software and not any aircraft publisher.  The facts speak for themselves.

I won't entertain a pointless debate about this, because it won't help you, and other customers having the same questions, getting a better experience with our products.

Instead, I can assure you the only reasons you're having all the issues you've kindly took time to report are solely related to an overzealous and too intrusive anti-virus system which was blocking our files all of a sudden. As a matter of fact, if this was so persistent a problem it would have been reported way more often since we've initially launched this product 3 years ago, regardless of the files being from a trusted publisher or not.

In the meantime we've reached out to Kaspersky and they've acknowledged their recent virus definition wrongfully tagged our files. They'll also amend their virus definitions in future updates.

I'm sorry you've not been able to experience our products to their finest unlike most of our customers, but we're here to help you through.

Hi Folks,

I don't have XP so I can't comment on the specific issues listed - just a vote of support for someone who's used Reality XP products for the last 15 to 20 years... 

In general - many software packages we use in Flight Sim recommend disabling your antivirus software when installing - as false positives will interfere with the installation process - this in nothing new on the MS/LM side of the fence...

The installers work quite well here - I have both my Flight Sim and Garmin Trainer located in my M: and Y: drives respectively - and they work just fine...

The absolutely slick cutting edge installation tools included in the RXP interface make installation in aircraft a breeze - I don't know if it's the same in XP...

Maybe there are problems with the XP installers - I don't know - all I can do is suggest you take a good hard look at Jean-Luc's comment history - he's here everyday trying to help - he truly goes the extra mile - he obviously cares deeply about his products - and he does everything he can do to make his customers happy - - - so if there is an issue - I'd suggest a little patience and I'm sure it will be resolved...

Just my 2 cents - take it for what it's worth...

Regards,
Scott

 

 

Wow my head is spinning. Can You reach out to Bitdefender also? I've gone from Kaspersky to Bitdefender and it's doing the same thing. I miss my GTN 750. Thank You for all that You do.

 

After many issues with anti virus programs and the GTN installation I did an anti virus program clean up.

Deleted Bitdefender and now use Widows Defender and the Windows 10 included anti virus. I also use malwarebytes. I have had no problems since then and the whole anti virus issue is now much more user friendly. If there is an issue a window pops up, tells you the problem and how to solve it.

The Windows 10 anti virus programs are as good as, and in lots of cases better, than 3rd party addons.

On 8/12/2019 at 6:56 PM, dissy said:

The Windows 10 anti virus programs are as good as, and in lots of cases better, than 3rd party addons.

I concur it seems the one included with Win10 is more than enough nowadays, but some 3rd party AV programs also offer options the default doesn't have. At this point it is a question of one's 'confort' level more than anything else.

If you don't open email attachment from unknown sources, resist the urge to open the nice cat video your friend is sending you, you don't try to circumvent software licensing and you make sound judgments about which website you visit and when to deactivate javascript in your browser, there is a 99.99% chance the default is more than enough.