E120 - condition lever operation

[JazzyOne 0]

Hi!

Anyone who knows how the E120s condition levers are supposed to be operated through different phases of flight? I personally pull it full forward during takeoff, and lower it during climb/cruise (95 % / 90 % prop rpm) but don’t have a clue if thats realistic. Couldn’t find any info on the topic on the web (e g smartcockpit).

 

Regards

J1

[FDEdev 955]

T/O, max cont. & go-around: N_P = 100%, torque 100%

Climb: N_P = 100%, torque 84% 

Cruise N_P = 85%

Landing N_P = 100%

Hope this helps 🙂

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by FDEdev

[Nickbe 401]

I found an interesting discussion of EMB120 RL-pilots on the Internet. There are numbers Np, Torque used by different airlines. Still, at the end of the discussion there is information on the Torque settings with different positions of the flaps during aproach and landing, but when I tried to test them in the simulator on the model of Carenado - there is a strong discrepancy. The imperfection of the dynamics from Carenado?

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/46176-emb-120-sops-2.html

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Nickbe

[FDEdev 955]

39 minutes ago, Nickbe said:

Still, at the end of the discussion there is information on the Torque settings with different positions of the flaps during aproach and landing, but when I tried to test them in the simulator on the model of Carenado - there is a strong discrepancy. The imperfection of the dynamics from Carenado?

How much is the discrepancy? Apparently there's also a considerable difference between the 'real' sim and the actual aircraft.

The FDE imperfection is simply due to the lack of available information during development. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by FDEdev

[Nickbe 401]

37 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

How much is the discrepancy? Apparently there's also a considerable difference between the 'real' sim and the actual aircraft.

The FDE imperfection is simply due to the lack of available information during development. 

RL-pilot:

Quote

Power settings for flaps 25 approach vary with weight. At about 24000 lbs or higher, the airplane will need about 19-24% torque. Below 24000 lbs, expect anywhere between 15-19% torque. The sim though, 20-25% works great, at 23 to 24000 lbs. A good average torque setting would be 20% (for profile purposes)

For flaps 45, in the airplane, expect to be 30-35% torque in the descent to maintain approach speed (we use Vref +10). Lighter = not too much difference, still about 28-34%. A good average would be 35%.
NDARMOUR speaks the truth (troof) about flaps 45. Nothing too difficult, just tempermental. Some smooth (smoove) landings, some not so much. Just keep the power in until the roundout.

My landing weight was about 23,000 lbs. For flaps 25 i need about 35% torque, for flaps 45 - about 50%. Temp= 22C.

And I fully agree with you, for the development of dynamics, need lot of available information.

 

[FDEdev 955]

Have to test when I'm back home in a few days, but this should be an easy fix because the torque difference between flaps 25 and 45 is roughly the same as in the real EMB120. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by FDEdev

[Nickbe 401]

I, too, tomorrow will do even a few flights and more closely'll watch for torque in different situations.

[JazzyOne 0]

Thanks for all answers so far! 

Another question: On the upper panel there are som switches next to the autofeather switch where you can select TO, CL, CR and MAN. When do you use these features? And are they simulated?

Regards

J1

[FDEdev 955]

According to Carenado these EEC are inop in their version and in most, if not all, real EMB120s.

[Nickbe 401]

19 hours ago, JazzyOne said:

Thanks for all answers so far! 

Another question: On the upper panel there are som switches next to the autofeather switch where you can select TO, CL, CR and MAN. When do you use these features? And are they simulated?

Regards

J1

 

17 hours ago, FDEdev said:

According to Carenado these EEC are inop in their version and in most, if not all, real EMB120s.

About EEC, from "Training manual":

Quote

"The EEC uses the power rating selector on the overhead EEC panel to program the EEC control function. The power rating selector has the following positions:

• MAN (EEC off)—Selects the manual, HMU only, mode.

• TO/CL/CR (EEC on)—Selects the automatic, control functions, mode.

The EEC operates the same in each position. Originally, the EEC system was designed to operate takeoff, climb, and cruise maximum torque indicator bugs. As these functions have not yet received regulatory approval, the torque indicator bugs are inactive."

 

[Nickbe 401]

On 10/14/2019 at 1:52 PM, FDEdev said:

Have to test when I'm back home in a few days, but this should be an easy fix because the torque difference between flaps 25 and 45 is roughly the same as in the real EMB120. 

I just tested the thrust requirement again in a test flight.  Landing weight = 24059 lbs, T= 26C, Vref+10, Airport elevation = 1050 ft. Wind - 0-1.

Flaps 25 - torque 30-35%

Flaps 45 - torque 50-55%

[FDEdev 955]

Thanx for the additional tests, but they should always be performed at SL and at ISA conditions because P3D/FSX aren't doing a good job with ISA deviations and the FDE is based on ISA.

I'll do additional tests today and I'll consider to adjust the FDE accordingly, but I wil wait for toucanairs confirmation, since the present numbers do look ok to him. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by FDEdev

[JazzyOne 0]

Nickbe: 👍

[FDEdev 955]

That's strange since I'm getting totally different power settings

ISA at 1000ft, 3deg GS, ROD ~700ft/min, Np 100%, 24000lbs

Flaps 25,  V_REF+10 = 131kias = 38-39%

Flaps 45,  V_REF+10 = 122kias = 44-45%

Edited October 16, 2019 by FDEdev

[FDEdev 955]

@Nickbe, check your PM for the fix concerning the corrected approach power settings.🙂

Edited October 17, 2019 by FDEdev