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teropa

This one still not corrected, wonder why

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Hi,Downloaded the new demo yesterday.I noticed that with the default Learjet, one still gets the "speedbrake extended" message (if a plane has one) when banking left enough so that the spoilerons of the plane become operational.This oddity has been in MSFS at least from FS2002 times. I wonder how it is possible that it's still not fixed! Also, this oddity creates questions in many payware support forums, where the developers have to convince the users that the speedbrake extension light/indicator is illuminating during hard left turns due to error in MSFS, not in their plane.Can anyone tell if this has been fixed in the release version? Somehow letting this kind of small problem just persist from one version to another doesn't speak too good about the beta process. In my opinion.Tero

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Guest

they dont spend much time perfecting the default airplanes... and why are you bankinga lear like a f-15?

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Guys,I've said this once before (I think in conjuction with something else).It's not a matter of "flying wrong" or "banking like f-15", it's a matter of if something works like it should or not. If I was to beta test products with an attitude like "no one shouldn't be doing this, so I'll leave it alone", then I would be very short-lived as a beta tester for anyone.I hope that the next one to answer will not be tempted to ask me why I am banking too hard. That's not the issue here.Also, this issue is not related to just the default airplanes. It's related to any aircraft that have spoilerons as control surfaces (the same panels that are also used as the speed brakes, hence the faulty indication of extended speed brakes). Often the spoilerons become operational only at larger than usual control deflections.Terops> in a heavy turbulence and x-wind sometimes really large control movements are required with heavy aircraft flying in the back of their power curve (approach). I kid you not.

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This is correct. A large part of beta testing should involve 'stress testing' to ensure the software works under all conditions, and not just within the parameters you expect!

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Guest allcott

Spolierons operate the same in FSX as FS2004 I suppose - through the spoiler axis. If there is no separate spoileron axes then that's why. And I think the role fo the beta tester is to reveal operational issues and errors within the normal flight regime, not to extend the flight envelope and `properly` represent a flight model in extreme attitudes. For that you need `developers` and people who have actually flown the aircraft in question.For example: Do you know that the Lear doesn't HAVE a warning message that lights up at extreme control deflections? Such as would be found when carrying out high-g manoeuvres beyond Vmc? The EICAS exists for real pilots, so why wouldn't the speedbrake message exist for sim pilots, as an advisory?Allcott

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I've noticed this in Demo 2 as well .... I didn't even need to bank sharply to see the SPOILER msg!-------------------------------------------If it doesn't have a VC I won't be concerned :)

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G'day Tero,IMHO no large jet transport aircraft in MS2004 has lateral controls anywhere near approaching reality. Can't speak for the Lear jet but on Boeings (and most other transport aircraft) the flight spoilers are operated by rotation of the aileron control wheel and the spoilers start working virtually similtaneously with the ailerons. The speed brakes are operated by the lever handle on the throttle quadrant console. The actual position of the physical panel on the wing depends upon the summed input of both those inputs and the force of the hydraulic actuator balanced by the aerodynamic loading on the panel. It will be interesting to see how developers handle the A380. On landing all six ailerons become speed brakes and go up as auto speed brakes.I don't think it's fair to blame the Beta testing process as there are simply limitations to what can be achieved on a home PC. Cheers,Roger

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>This is correct. A large part of beta testing should involve>'stress testing' to ensure the software works under all>conditions, and not just within the parameters you expect! I suppose, that if a sim developer devoted all it's resources to failure modes such as one flap deploying and not another, a windscreen being kamakazied by a diving bird with wings tucked to it's side...Then the software could potentially re-create conditions out of the normal flight envelope. Of course, much would have to be faked and animated.But desktop simulations have limits. Even the use of full aileron or elevator deflections when using auto-pilot have to be compromised. You can either show full deflection without a reaction, to mimic A/P "feel"authority; don't allow animated full deflection; or make it seem much too easy to override the feel of the opposing servos.The only way around this A/P scenario is force-feedback, and a whole lot of "what if's' programmed in. But then force-feed backs can feel so fake, on many other occasions. L.Adamson

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Just to be clear still.By no means do I expect "it all" from a desktop PC flight sim. God knows I've flown my share of real simulators so I know the difference between MSFS and a real Level-C/D full flight simulator.To expect a tiny little oddity like this to be corrected is, in my opinion, elementary. I know what spoilerons are, what speed brakes are and all of that. The issue is that MS still lets that message to be triggered. And then payware developers (who end up using some default portions of the control surface modelling) are compelled to answer users' questions about it. This thing has surfaced many many times over the years, and I would imagine that it's a relatively simple fix.Just voicing my suprise over this minor (but existant) issue that I thought to be long gone from the FSX.Tero

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