Shut Down Procedures

[butler 0]

I'm using SOP 2 with button control. I've followed the tutorial since I got the product earlier this week but I've been doing APU at the gate. Last night and today I've flown about 4 legs and in the approach briefing setup I choose GPU and AC cart. Now before you pull into the gate you do the lights and door command which you turn off the FDs, weather radar etc and the FO will turn off the taxi lights and switch over to APU if you're using that but obviously I have no APU running because I want to use the GPU cart. He says no power or whatever which is what it says in the manual if there is no APU or GPU running, so I pull into the gate with GSX, set the brakes and via the FS2Crew AND the FMC ground operations (2 flights tried with FS2Crew and 2 flights tried with FMC) I have to wait for them to hook up, but the FO immediately starts to do the shut down procedure and before it is even connected he is already flipping the GPU switch and then says no power available. So after they hook up, I flip the switch and then shut down and then he starts his shut down procedure.

Is there something i'm doing wrong? Following the tutorial step by step works for the APU at the gate style of arrival but any other, it does this to me. 

I have googled and searched all over and can't find my issue posted by anyone else.

Is there a proper way to do this with SOP2 or something simple like a config setting I need to change to prevent him from stupidly trying to turn on ground power without being hooked up.

Side note, I can't find any info in the manual regarding pulse light config setting. What are the procedures for pulse lights? I've noticed he turns them to pulse during TO procedure and when below transition 18k. I have no problem with turning off landing lights and taxi lights.. i'm just trying to understand it better so I can go with the flow easier.

[vc10man 732]

@butler as I too use the PMDG 737NGXu, and the Button Control version, perhaps I can shed some light here.

In the Approach Brief, I will state the APU status and read out to the PM that to wait for my command to switch on the APU as the airport I may be landing has a long taxi in.

Upon landing as I call for the After Landing Clean-up Checks, as I am taxi-ing in, at 3 minutes taxi, that PM will call out that time, which is when through the Secondary Button I call for the APU to be switched on. Now, as I approach the Gate, I call for Lights and Doors, which the PM dutifully obliges with. At the Gate, engines, still running, once I have applied the brakes, and the chocks are automatically set, I switch on the GPU, and then call for the Shutdown Checklists, which is when I shut down the engines and the PM does the rest and I release the brakes.

Must declare, I have never had the PM starting the Shutdown procedure till I ask him.

 

[butler 0]

Why turn on the APU if i'm going to be hooked up to the GPU anyways? Realistically wouldn't that just be useless wear and tear and an unneeded start and use of fuel? 

I still don't fully understand what you're saying? Is the work around just to set it to delay APU start everytime and just run the APU until I get to the gate and hook up the GPU? 

As far as i'm aware you can't do the shut down checklist until he does the procedure first but what's the point of forcing through the checklist? 

Once again, I have no APU running and in the approach brief I stated GPU and AC cart and before I pull into the gate I do the lights and doors command, he shuts off the taxi light and states no APU power. I stop, set parking brakes and then he immediately starts the shut down procedure by switching the ground power switch before it is even hooked up due to the PMDG animation needing to do its thing, and then he says "no power" and cancels the procedure. Once the GPU is established I myself turn on the GPU power and then shut down the engines and the second I turn off number 2 he starts as if everything is normal and once both N2s are under 20 percent I hook up the AC cart too and the rest is well. 

I don't have and never had the option to command the start of the shut down procedure like you can with the TO procedure. 

[Chock 17,769]

What you are simulating might be slightly outside the scope of what either GSX or FS2Crew is capable of replicating exactly as per the real thing, particularly if you are using both. As you probably know, the procedure you are attempting to simulate is called an 'F.E.P. shutdown' arrival. To do one of those exactly as per the real thing, requires the following...

Whilst en route and presumably aware they have no APU, the crew (or airline) advises their arrival base of operations or service agent that the aircraft will have no APU available on arrival (sometimes they forget to do this, which is annoying!). Crews sometimes use ACARS for this, sometimes they just radio it in. Since the ramp people who will be meeting the aircraft (hopefully) then know the aircraft will have no APU, they will either get the stand ready for an FEP shutdown arrival by swiping a card on the control box for the Fixed Electrical Power (F.E.P.) as the aircraft taxies on stand, or if the stand has a faulty FEP or no FEP at all (this is not especially unusual), they will tow a GPU trailer to the stand and have that ready to provide power instead.

When the flight comes on stand, the arrival/shutdown procedure is as follows. The aircraft taxies on stand as normal, with its anti collision red beacons on as usual, but this is especially important when doing an FEP shutdown, since people will be approaching the aircraft with its engines running, so the flight crew need to warn everyone about that so nobody goes near an engine intake. The airliner can have both engines running, but if possible it will come on stand preferably with only the port (number 1) engine running, since this is on the side away from where the FEP or GPU is located and also on the opposite side to where the ground power socket is located on a Boeing 737, thus further protecting the ramp crew from a potential accident.

So, the aircraft keeps its collision beacons on and applies the brakes. The pilot or co-pilot gives a brakes on visual signal to the ramp crew (this is a clenched fist signal; it visually replicates the brake pads clamping on the disk), the ramp crew then chock the nose wheel only, then the FEP plug/GPU plug is connected to the socket on the aircraft and switched powered on. If a mobile (towed) GPU is used, there is a correct procedure for this too. Mostly this is to do with the fact that these are diesel generators, so you don't want the exhaust from them pointing at the cockpit and showering the crew with exhaust fumes. Basically, you tow it up to the (usually on most aircraft) right hand side of the aeroplane, near the nose, then you chock the trailer, then you disconnect it from the tow vehicle, makes sure the tow vehicle has its brakes on, fold up the towing hitch for the trailer, then you can connect the power lead to the aeroplane.

The ramp crew then give the signal indicating ground power is available (this is a clenched left fist which is raised above the head and pushed onto the flat palm of the right hand; this visually replicates the action of a plug being connected). There should be a light on the overhead of the aircraft which shows ground power is available too, but it doesn't always work or grab the crew's attention, so the signal helps! The crew can then switch to the ground power circuit and can shut the engines/engine down.

When the engines drop below about 20 percent of N1, the crew can turn off the beacon and then the ramp crew will put chocks on the main wheels and let the crew know all chocks are in place with a visual signal (clenched fists overhead with the thumbs pointing at one another are moved together; this replicates pulling chock in onto the wheels) or they can advise of this via the headset if they have plugged it in. The flight crew can then (if they wish) release the brakes to allow better brake cooling; some airlines do this, others do not.

Everything after that reverts to normal procedures for securing the aircraft, so you might want to work around what your add-ons are doing if you want to use the above procedure, since that is the correct way to do it.

It's worth bearing in mind that connecting the FEP or GPU to an aeroplane is not always easy and so it can take a minute or two to achieve this, even when the ramp crew know what they are doing, so if it takes you a couple of minutes to get your simulated aeroplane eunning on ground power upon arrival, that's not too unrealistic in reality. This is largely because some of the ground power socket designs of some airliners are - quite frankly - really appallingly badly designed. Although having said that, the Boeing 737's ground power socket is among the better designs, being low enough to reach easily and also at an angle which means the ground power plug and cable (these are pretty heavy) does not drop out owing to its weight. This is in stark contrast to the Airbus A320 - anyone who has ever put the ground power on an A320 will tell you how absolutely awful the socket is on those, with literally nothing to prevent the plug from dropping out other than the plug hopefully being a tight fit, which it invariably is not. Whoever designed that A320 ground power socket should be shot.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Chock

[butler 0]

Thanks for the info, helps alot.

So would it just be better to run the APU during turn around then? I just don't know how to halt his shut down procedure until I can get the thing connected. It's frustrating that he just automatically does it when the manual says different. Manual says if i'm gonna be using the GPU to shut down engine 2 until its hooked up and then connect to the GPU then shut down 1 then the FO should start his shut down procedure.

[byork 2,259]

6 hours ago, butler said:

 

Is there a proper way to do this with SOP2 or something simple like a config setting I need to change to prevent him from stupidly trying to turn on ground power without being hooked up.

 

We'll look at this.  I think I see the problem.

In the old NGX, the GPU would be connected immediately... but in the U, there's a delay because PMDG models the cart.

We'll add a delay so the FO doesn't flip the power switch without the cart connected.

 

[butler 0]

Then that is exactly the issue then. I wasn't aware it was still modeled after the NGX and that its ground crew was instant. 

For now i'll just run the run the APU until GPU is connected them shut it off. 

[Chock 17,769]

4 hours ago, butler said:

So would it just be better to run the APU during turn around then?

Probably. If you like realism though, here's some stuff to keep in mind...

The APU on a Boeing 737 burns about 350 lbs of fuel per hour (that's around 160 kg if you prefer European values). The APU only feeds from the Number 1 fuel tank on a Boeing 737, which means you will get a fuel imbalance if you use the APU for a very long period of time, which is why more often than not, airliners will use ground power for the bulk of their stay on the ground and just crank the APU up maybe five minutes before they expect to push off stand. But then again, in a sim, you don't have to pay for fuel, unless you are using Air Hauler, in which case you do!

If you are going to use the APU a lot in a realistic sim with wear and tear, then look after it. A good habit to get into is to run it for at least a minute with a minimum electrical load on it before shutting it down and to wait at least three minutes after taking a pneumatic load off it before shutting it down. Doing that will extend its life and reliability. When crews don't do that, APUs break and that's how we end up having to do FEP shutdown arrivals lol (I'm looking at you, Airbus A330!)

When you do shut your APU down, don't shut off the battery for a minute or so. The shutdown sequence requires the battery's power for approximately a minute in order to shut down properly without putting a strain on the components.

It s not unknown to keep the APU running on turnarounds when the aircraft is not gonna be on the deck for long though and there's nothing wrong with doing so. Sometimes it is even unavoidable if on a stand where there is no FEP or it is broken. I can recall an occasion where we had an aircraft come on a remote stand at Manchester which had no FEP, so I got a trailer GPU, but found it would not power the aircraft in spite of running okay, so I got another trailer GPU and found that one wouldn't do the trick either, so I concluded the aircraft had a faulty GP socket and told the crew 'you'll just have to keep the APU going', so they did. And yes, you guessed it, it was an A321, with that dreadful GP connector socket, but in practical terms, it really isn't a big deal to have to keep the APU going apart from being a bit noisy when you're working around the thing.

Most of our B737 spins are less than an hour (typically about 45 minutes, but with some of them being as quick as 25 minutes), but even the 25 minutes ones get an FEP plugged into them though more often than not, so I would say more flights do use the ground power than those which don't because after all, it does use fuel up to have that APU going, although as noted not at a very high rate so it's okay as long as you don't have it on for ages.

Having said that, we do get some British Airways Dornier 328s (which are actually operated by Sun Air for BA), whose crews often tell us not to bother connecting the FEP; instead they keep the APU going. Whether they are doing that because they don't want to pay for using an FEP, or don't want to bother shutting down and then restarting the APU, I wouldn't know. I might ask them about that next time I work on one of those although I can't imagine the APU on a Dornier 328 uses a great deal of fuel, whereas every time you start the APU (or try to start it and fail), I do know each attempt will use up about 7 percent of your battery power and it will put some additional wear on the turbine wheel. So it might be those crews being pretty savvy.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Chock

[vc10man 732]

Very informative, Alan. Not heard from you awhile. Hope all's well.

[Chock 17,769]

3 hours ago, vc10man said:

Very informative, Alan. Not heard from you awhile. Hope all's well.

Yup all is good. I was ill for a while and then had a bit of turmoil at work, so that kind of curtailed leisure activities. Aviator, the company I worked for, shut down in the UK owing to the collapse of Thomas Cook, which was its main client, so I went working for Menzies Aviation, which ironically enough then lost its main clients of Air France and KLM, or at leas will do at the end of March, and it was looking like they were going to make people redundant, but they have now sorted it out and jobs are safe, although I might possibly end up working for a different section of the company owing to a bit of consolidation they are doing, or even being TUPE'd over to Stobart Aviation as part of the transition for them to start doing Air France and KLM since I know the product. Guess we'll see on that score.

That's the joy of working in commercial aviation. It's fun, but it is a very volatile industry these days as airlines try to make savings all over the place and the uncertainty of the UK leaving the European Union has only added to that. However, when one door closes, it usually means another one opens somewhere too. The ramp at Manchester Airport is a bit like a merry go round at the moment, with people going all over the place to different companies as a result of such events, but as I say, that sort of thing often presents new opportunities just as much as it has downsides and because of that, I suspect it's going to be an interesting time at work over the next week or so!

[vc10man 732]

One or two that know you well from the EGCC area, were aware of that Thomas Cook collapse repercussions, and were concerned for your welfare and well-being. Glad that things panned out okay in the end, as bills have to be paid for one way or the other.

Hope it all irons out for the better, and good to see you here.👍