can't turn on the APPR (approach) button

[JiBrady 20]

I am new to the carenado falcon 50.  I have been able to program the FMC without any issues.  In todays flight I made it  all the way to the final airport for landing.  I set the NAV radio to the correct freq. for the ILS approach.  The signal was received.  However when I press the APPR button, it does not turn on (engage).  Also was unable to set the CRS, but I assume that is because I can't figure out how to select the APPR function.

What might I be missing?

Thanks,

Jim

[Chock 17,769]

With most autopilots, you have to be in LOC mode and tacking the localiser frequency and be pretty much aligned with the runway before the APP button will activate. So, normally you would use heading mode with the autopilot to come at the extended localiser signal at a fairly shallow angle (perhaps fifteen to twenty degrees off from either side) and when you are there, you switch to LOC to start lining up with the runway's extended centreline, usually about ten miles out from the threshhold of the runway. To track the localiser, you need the CRS dial to be set to the magnetic heading of the runway (you can find that by opening up the map from the sim's menu and clicking on the airport. If there are two course dials, you need them both set to the runway's magnetic heading.

The localiser can be picked up from a long way out, so you can usually line up with the runway from about ten to fifteen miles out, but typically you would fly up to the point where you could select APP by coming in under the extended beam of the descent guidance signal, so normally you'll get line up with the localiser, descend to between four and two thousand thousand feet, then level off and start getting the flaps, gear and speed all stable, and then as you approach the descent signal you'll hit the APP button.

Watch for the marker signal on the PFD's side approaching the middle of the display, which shows you are getting near to being in line with the signal. The reason you want to come at the ILS descent signal beam from under it, is that if you come at it from above, as you fly you'd have to pitch downwards a lot because you'd be chasing the descending radio beam as you got ever nearer to the runway, whereas approaching it from underneath, you fly up into the beam simply by being in level flight as you get nearer to the runway.

You should also be aware that many autopilots will not let you engage the APP button unless you have two CMD buttons engaged on the autopilot. This is because to fly an ILS approach, the aircraft will want to be using two autopilots for the safety reason of having some redundancy in the operation should one autopilot fail.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Chock

[FDEdev 955]

4 hours ago, JiBrady said:

Also was unable to set the CRS, but I assume that is because I can't figure out how to select the APPR function.

These two are not connected in any way since you can fly a 'raw data' approach without the FD or AP.

Can you confirm that the PFD shows the LOC in green on the HSI?   

[FDEdev 955]

4 hours ago, Chock said:

1.With most autopilots, you have to be in LOC mode and tacking the localiser frequency and be pretty much aligned with the runway before the APP button will activate.

2.You should also be aware that many autopilots will not let you engage the APP button unless you have two CMD buttons engaged on the autopilot. This is because to fly an ILS approach, the aircraft will want to be using two autopilots for the safety reason of having some redundancy in the operation should one autopilot fail.

1. I don't know any AP system where this is the case. If you start the approach within the glideslope coverage distance you can use APP without using LOC first without any problems.

2. Same as above. I'm not aware that such limitations exist in any AP system. Many aircraft have only one AP.

Even if they have two or three, you usually only engage all of them when doing a CAT II or CAT III approach. In good weather (down to CAT I) you usually only use one AP.

[Chock 17,769]

I'm talking about some flight sims requiring this, not the real thing. It may not be the case for that Carenado aeroplane, I'm just attempting to cover all bases because I don't have the particular simulated Carenado Falcon aircraft in question myself although I do have two other Falcons from other developers and I do know one or two sim aeroplanes do implement that, so I'm simply offering the suggestion to try it.

Back with the real world, at many airlines, it is standard procedure to arm both autopilots for an approach, and it most certainly is the SOP for Airbus's own manuals, that I do know because it was me who produced them. There are a few reasons why that is done on some aircraft, i.e it offers a back up, it makes the go around procedure easier, it streamlines the training procedure for when people do a higher category approach etc, etc.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Chock

[lzamm 143]

7 hours ago, Chock said:

You should also be aware that many autopilots will not let you engage the APP button unless you have two CMD buttons engaged on the autopilot.

Isn't it the other way round, you can't arm both autopilots unless APP is engaged?  Pressing the second (unlit)  AP button when not in an approach or go-around mode  disengages the other autopilot. 

 

Edit - already been said, I should have read FDEdev's post better :)

Edited March 31, 2020 by lzamm

[Chock 17,769]

True, but since the OP was having problems, I was offering suggestions of things to try.

[FDEdev 955]

3 hours ago, Chock said:

I'm talking about some flight sims requiring this, not the real thing. 

I've re-read your initial reply and to me it doesn't make the impression that you are talking about a desktop flightsim. If you would point out that your are not talking about real aviation, you would avoid that other forum members feel the need to correct your various statements.

Edited March 31, 2020 by FDEdev

[JiBrady 20]

I still cant get the APPR to engage on the Carenado Falcon 50.  I have had it work a couple of times, but seem unable to repeat it on other flights, most likely because I most likely cant remember the exact setup I used when it worked.  I can fly the PMDG 777, the Majestic Q400. and the Carenado Phenom 100, without any problems when doing a ILS approach. 

In answer to one of the questions, I have had LOC selected, the VOR set to the ILS freq. and I am very close to the airport (5 to 10 miles)

This Carenado is the most difficult of all my planes to fly.  Perhaps it is buggy. or I continue to make cockpit errors.  

Thanks,

JIm

[FDEdev 955]

I've noticed that their complex aircraft can be sometimes inconsistent.  If you can fly all the above aircraft without problems I doubt that it is your fault. 

So when it works, are you able to change the ILS course? 

Can you post a screenshot of the panel during this situation?

What is your default aircraft and in which state?

Are you using the shift+7 menu when loading the Falcon?

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by FDEdev

[brennanjed 0]

I just bought the Carenado too. It is beyond buggy. I would go as far to say it is simply awful. It is near unflyable. I have sent Carenado an email listing my errors but I don't think I will get a response!

[FDEdev 955]

19 minutes ago, brennanjed said:

I have sent Carenado an email listing my errors but I don't think I will get a response!

Any chance you post this list here as well?  Carenado staff usually does reply to their customers.

[brennanjed 0]

Yes will do:

Autopilot VNAV mode won't work sends aircraft into stall

Speed hold doesn't work

Approach button doesn't work

More to follow let me look at my list

 

[JiBrady 20]

Carenado reports they are unable to recreate my reported problem with the APPR button.  They will issue me a refund.

Jim