Pitch trim always trims either fully up or fully down - v5

[Senchai 24]

Hello 🙂

Nice plane, well done. 

But sadly im hit by something that either i do wrong or is somehow buggy for me. I have 5 other planes installed (pmdg 747, 748, as a330, MJ Dash 8, QW 787, Leon. MD80, the Learjet is the only one where this happens.

 

When the plane is running (maybe before already, i forgot atm...) the pitch trims always trims fully upward automatically. If i manually trim down (vie joystick button, no fsuipc) it goes right back to the upper top. I think ive seen it also at the bottom but i could be wrong.

You can see in the video (AP on, VS + Alt Sel) that it always trims down, then up, then down, then up. Only  some degrees here. But please not that this is maybe something different, im not sure. In the case of the video i didnt manually trim down, all those pitch trims actions (up and down) there where done automatically.

When im on the ground its like i mentioned first, it auto trims fully upward and when i manually trim down it straight goes back up as soon i dont use the trim button anymore.

So 2 things:

1. on ground with engines running it auto trims upwards and when i trim down manually it goes straight back up to max upward.

2. In the air it auto trims up and down, what makes the plane also fly up and down, not able to follow the AP.

What do i oversee? Ive asked some users first, looked at manual but i cant find anything that explains this.

Thank you for answer ^^

 

[ark 1,291]

2 hours ago, Senchai said:

When the plane is running (maybe before already, i forgot atm...) the pitch trims always trims fully upward automatically. If i manually trim down (vie joystick button, no fsuipc) it goes right back to the upper top. I think ive seen it also at the bottom but i could be wrong.

You can see in the video (AP on, VS + Alt Sel) that it always trims down, then up, then down, then up. Only  some degrees here. But please not that this is maybe something different, im not sure. In the case of the video i didnt manually trim down, all those pitch trims actions (up and down) there where done automatically.

When im on the ground its like i mentioned first, it auto trims fully upward and when i manually trim down it straight goes back up as soon i dont use the trim button anymore.

So 2 things:

1. on ground with engines running it auto trims upwards and when i trim down manually it goes straight back up to max upward.

2. In the air it auto trims up and down, what makes the plane also fly up and down, not able to follow the AP.

Hello Senchai,

Some information about the Lear35 pitch trim:

1. When the trim needle is straight up, that is 0 degrees of trim.

2. When the trim needle is straight down, that is 10 degrees of positive (nose up) trim.

3. The trim gauge needle does not show negative trim values (the needle does not move past the 12 o'clock position towards the 1 o'clock position). That is just the way the gauge works.

4. In level flight at typical cruise speeds you can have small negative trim values. For negative trim values the needle is just "stuck" straight up in the 12 o'clock position, but if you put the mouse cursor over the trim gauge, the tool tip will show you the trim value.

3. When you climb at typical speeds (230kts) with the AP on, again the trim needle will be almost straight up (maybe shows 2 degrees of positive trim).

4. So with the AP on the trim needle will be close to straight up (close to 0 trim, + or - a few degrees) except during takeoff and landing.

Now we need to try and figure out why, when you are just sitting on the ground, the trim needle moves automatically to the 0 trim (straight up) position. I do not see this on my system.

What kind of joystick button have you assigned to the pitch trim, and how have you made this assignment?

On the Lear's center console between the seats, and below the 3 trim gauges, there is a trim PRImary/SECondary switch. Make sure that switch is in the PRImary (forward) position.

When on the ground, and with the AP Off, if you manually move the trim, does it still automatically go back to the straight up position, or does the AP have to be on for that to happen?

Finally, just in case there is a parameter initialization problem, I suggest that after starting the sim, first load the default F-35A, and then switch to the Lear to see if this makes any difference.

Al

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by ark

[Senchai 24]

Thank you for the explanation 🙂 

2 hours ago, ark said:

What kind of joystick button have you assigned to the pitch trim, and how have you made this assignment?

I have a Thrustmaster 16000M, so a joystick and extra throttle unit. I bound the trim up and trim down to 2 buttons on the joystick unit. I did this via P3D menu, not by FSUIPC. So there is no axis involved.

BUT, and now its getting weird: If i use an axis, lets say nosewheel steering/rudder then the trim moves as well. Nearly like it would if it would be bound to this axis. So when i make a rudder left, the trim goes downward and if i do a rudder right the trim goes upward.

The same happens when i use the thrust axis. Every movement i do on any axis makes the pitch trim move. Very weird.

So for me it looks like the pitch trim could be hit by  noise from either one of my axis`. Of course this shouldnt happen if no axis is bound to the pitch trim.

2 hours ago, ark said:

On the Lear's center console between the seats, and below the 3 trim gauges, there is a trim PRImary/SECondary switch. Make sure that switch is in the PRImary (forward) position.

Yes, that is set to forward. Sadly cant be seen in the pic.

2 hours ago, ark said:

When on the ground, and with the AP Off, if you manually move the trim, does it still automatically go back to the straight up position, or does the AP have to be on for that to happen?

I will check this. Thank you so far ^^

BTW, this is P3D v5 HF 1

[ark 1,291]

11 minutes ago, Senchai said:

BUT, and now its getting weird: If i use an axis, lets say nosewheel steering/rudder then the trim moves as well. Nearly like it would if it would be bound to this axis. So when i make a rudder left, the trim goes downward and if i do a rudder right the trim goes upward.

The same happens when i use the thrust axis. Every movement i do on any axis makes the pitch trim move. Very weird.

So for me it looks like the pitch trim could be hit by  noise from either one of my axis`. Of course this shouldnt happen if no axis is bound to the pitch trim.

Senchai, It sounds to me like there is a trim control assignment problem somewhere -- I doubt it is a noise problem. Trying going into the P3D Controls setup under Options, select Axis Assignments, and then select New, and move the rudder axis and see if anything strange shows up. Do the same type of test with your trim button -- I think there is an assignment conflict somewhere.

Al

[Senchai 24]

Indeed, thank you ^^

Something is wrong with how P3D is handling hardware now i think....i never had this problem in v4.

The issue is that i cannot setup my TM16000 anymore the way i had it in v4. Remember ive said that i have extra throttle unit to the joystick unit and usually i could setup both in a way where nothing interfers with the other unit. So it was np to bind something to axis X on the joystick and at the same time to axis X on the throttles. Both worked fine.

Seems this doesnt work now anymore and it is interacting with each other.

What is also weird is that unlike in v4, where the calibration happened inside the sim, in v5 the calibration option leads to my internal windows TM16000 configuration center. And here i cannot calibrate the throttles for whatever reason....

Anyway, that was the problem. Thanks for the tip.

PS: the "New..." function doesnt work when throttles are chosen. It only works when i select the joystick unit. But still thats ho i found it out because the slider was set to thrust on the joystick and when i moved the rudder on throttle unit i saw that it interferes with each other. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Senchai

[ark 1,291]

14 minutes ago, Senchai said:

Indeed, thank you ^^

Something is wrong with how P3D is handling hardware now i think....i never had this problem in v4.

The issue is that i cannot setup my TM16000 anymore the way i had it in v4. Remember ive said that i have extra throttle unit to the joystick unit and usually i could setup both in a way where nothing interfers with the other unit. So it was np to bind something to axis X on the joystick and at the same time to axis X on the throttles. Both worked fine.

Seems this doesnt work now anymore and it is interacting with each other.

What is also weird is that unlike in v4, where the calibration happened inside the sim, in v5 the calibration option leads to my internal windows TM16000 configuration center. And here i cannot calibrate the throttles for whatever reason....

Anyway, that was the problem. Thanks for the tip.

PS: the "New..." function doesnt work when throttles are chosen. It only works when i select the joystick unit. But still thats ho i found it out because the slider was set to thrust on the joystick and when i moved the rudder on throttle unit i saw that it interferes with each other. 

Glad to hear you are starting to get a handle on what is going on. Sounds like maybe you should start with just one controller, get it working as needed, and then go from there.

BTW, have you really been up all night in Bangkok working on this -- no sleep?!  😮😉

Al

Edited June 3, 2020 by ark

[Senchai 24]

Hehe no, im in Germany at the moment ^^ But its also getting late here by now.

Going with only the joystick would be a real loss, the TM16000 was not really cheap and the product is basically both of them combined, they have to work together. They do in all other applications, P3d v4, space sims likeElite Dangerous, DCS and whatnot.

This has to be a p3d v5 bug, so ill make a topic about this in the p3d forum.

Thank you again 🙂 Now i can finally learn to control the plane hehe

[ark 1,291]

1 hour ago, Senchai said:

Going with only the joystick would be a real loss, the TM16000 was not really cheap and the product is basically both of them combined, they have to work together. They do in all other applications, P3d v4, space sims likeElite Dangerous, DCS and whatnot.

OK, I think I understand now -- the TM16000 has two parts to it. I had not seen the TM16000 before.

You may be able to get some help on the AVSIM P3D or Hardware Controllers Forums, or maybe Thrustmaster has a forum.

Al

Edited June 3, 2020 by ark

[Nickbe 401]

Just one thought to check. Prepar3D has two types of connection with controllers (Input Method) - DirectInput and RAW Input. By default, DirectInput is enabled. It is possible to change to RAW can help?

[Senchai 24]

On 6/3/2020 at 8:29 AM, Nickbe said:

Just one thought to check. Prepar3D has two types of connection with controllers (Input Method) - DirectInput and RAW Input. By default, DirectInput is enabled. It is possible to change to RAW can help?

i will try that, thanks for the tip ^^

[Senchai 24]

That worked yes. Thanks again