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4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

since windows users are in the small minority at Laminar, Im sure that discussion has already happened more than once.

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

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1 hour ago, Kopteeni said:

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

Personally I expect Laminar to be the main beneficiaries of the Microsoft flight 2.0.2.0 marketing budget. Especially once it drops.


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2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Personally I expect Laminar to be the main beneficiaries of the Microsoft flight 2.0.2.0 marketing budget. Especially once it drops.

I admire your bravery. Are you just going to delete your post history if your forecasts will end up aging like milk?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

I admire your bravery. Are you just going to delete your post history if your forecasts will end up aging like milk?

I have 25 years of post history, not going to delete it even if Asobo do actually achieve the impossible after all that time. What would be the point of that?

Edited by mSparks

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20 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

2.  Let go of IOS/OSX/Linux ... even more relevant now that Apple are going to drop Intel and go back to their own processors  ... multi platform is a good idea for larger development teams, not for LR dev team size

I find this view pretty strange, especially if you're a programmer?. Developing on these platforms is much more open than using a closed DirectX environment that will only run on Windows/X-Box PCs. Although Mac OS uses Metal instead of Vulkan, they're not miles apart to be incompatible. If they stuck to developing Windows only, they'd be cutting of a part of their fanbase that virtually has no competition (i.e. Linux/Mac OS flight simulation). In addition, the iOS port is likely earning them money at the moment, and has a bigger reach than Windows PCs.  Although I certainly don't like their decision to move to ARM processors, if it unifies iOS with the desktop, then this will be a good thing for developers.

 

16 hours ago, mSparks said:

I don't actually understand why so many buy a top notch PC just for xplane - and then install windows on it. Its like buying a Ferrari and then fitting a VW golf engine in it and replacing the leather seats with latex.

I'm a Mac user, most of the time... but I also have a Windows gaming laptop simply because many games don't have Mac/Linux versions and VR only works on Windows. One big strength for me is X-Plane's support for Mac OS X as well as all the development tools etc... I dislike Windows 10 so much that I rarely touch the machine and I'd rip it out and replace it with Linux in a heartbeat if all my software was compatible. Windows 10 is such a horrible OS which gets in my way from actually doing work or using my computer (Awful start panel, popups, etc...). Up until this point, Apple did it correctly, but it seems to be a growing trend over the past few years to greatly dumb down computers.

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41 minutes ago, tonywob said:

greatly dumb down computers

..not to mention the new UI etc in MSFS!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tonywob said:

I dislike Windows 10 so much that I rarely touch the machine and I'd rip it out and replace it with Linux in a heartbeat if all my software was compatible.

I think it passed many by just how much market and mind share microsoft lost.

go into a cafe, all the hipsters are on Apple.

go into a large multinational, all the stalwart ibm thinkpads have been replaced with Apple.

go into a home, all the PC games machines have been replaced with Playstations or Nintendo switch.

When Steve Jobs died I was predicting the beginning of the end for Apple, what I didnt count on was how hard Microsoft would work on making sure Apple continued to grow. 

I started the switch to Linux as far back as 98 with the release of Mandriva Linux, and since then never adopted any software that didnt have a Linux option.

Flight simulator X steam edition was the sole exception to that, Steam tells me I amassed a meager 300 or so hours on it, and it was last used in Oct 2017.

Libreoffice is now serious competition to ms office, g suite has made a huge impact.

The days of "microsoft or bust" have long gone.

Edited by mSparks
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, tonywob said:

I find this view pretty strange, especially if you're a programmer?

But that's the problem, it's not a developers decision ... it's a market decision (per data 80% on Windows) and we programmers follow the metrics of higher revenue.  It's NOT about "me" as a developer, it's about growth and shorter delivery cycles.  I'm not against open or closed systems, they both have their benefits and pitfalls ... my preference isn't relevant ... and that's the problem I see with XP very slow development.  

I've had this same debate before with XP10 early days ... and yet nothing has changed and their is still the problem of slow development and unresponsive to end user desires.

Just like MSFS SDK isn't about what I want (nobody wants WASM or DX11), it's about what MS/Asobo want and where they feel the market share for increased sales "might" be.

Cheers, Rob.

Edited by Rob_Ainscough
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20 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I think some of you need to put your platform "love" aside for the greater good of getting XP to advance faster.

Screw "greater good". All these FS20 advents secretly just don't want to give money and data to MS for fears of being screwed over at some point (ref. FSX, Flight) and losing risky investments, usually in the thousands, they made in third party add-ons. Otherwise, there'd be no outside pressure on Laminar to produce a 1:1 clone because that's what 90% of these "what Laminar should do" posts entail.

 

13 hours ago, Airboeing said:

I'm on my third PC build since switching to X-Plane, and on each one I got significantly better performance using Windows compared to Linux with the official Nvidia drivers. I really would like to use Linux exclusively, but I always keep a Windows drive for X-Plane and some other software.

My Windows 10 installations got relegated to backup status after I found out that even gaming is easily possible on Linux nowadays.

Really the only reason to stick to Windows in an X-Plane context is some third party add-ons.

 

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

About the drivers for Linux the Mesa has come a long way with proper 3d Acceleration but LR will not help you if you face an issue with the open source drivers which i had.  Users having a NVIDIA will have better proprietary drivers for Linux but for ones with an AMD GPU would have issues like installation and then getting a black screen , so AMD users shift to the open source ones and it gives great performance.

LR does not support open source drivers because bei their (well, Sid's) own admission, they can't test them yet.

True about the performance though, I get nearly equal framerates on my desktop's AMD in Mesa with OpenGL than I do on Windows with Vulkan.

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

Same thing about using it as a desktop , starting blender / rendering is way snappier than in Windows. Gimp is faster in Linux.  But I wanted only one OS for all the sims like DCS / il2 so i had to go back to windows.

IL-2 1946 runs perfectly fine on Linu-...oh, you're talking about the other one.

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

 More also its the user friendly environment that users look at. A layman with a little computer knowledge probably won't install Linux for browsing / email or watching youtube etc.. Most laptops now come with preinstalled Windows. so he / she wants to game and buys either a gaming laptop or a desktop for it , I am sure they will get windows , even without a license one can use it without issues.

Ubuntu and its derivatives have become incredibly user friendly. For word processing and web browsing, it's totally adequate now.

 

9 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

Interesting discussion about XPlane's future turned into a useless OS vs. OS battle where each participant is just throwing their crappy subjective experiences to prove their OS is the king. Whoopeedoo.

Might as well close the thread then because no user-side speculation about XPlane's future is interesting because it's just the same wants and speculation over and over again.

 

9 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

What a great day this'll be. I'mma pop open a bottle of sparkling wine and get terribly drunk.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I see with XP very slow development.  

2017 was xplane 10.

I have absolutely NO idea how you can quantify 3 years from then to now as "slow". 

Breathtakingly fast is more the words I would use.

Which flight sim (and there are lots of them) are you comparing with that has moved and improved faster? Its taken flight 2.0.2.0 twelve months to fix their broken rudder and elevators.

If anything 3rd parties have been complaining its been to fast and they haven't been able to keep up.

Edited by mSparks
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9 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

LR does not support open source drivers because bei their (well, Sid's) own admission, they can't test them yet.

True about the performance though, I get nearly equal framerates on my desktop's AMD in Mesa with OpenGL than I do on Windows with Vulkan.

 

IL-2 1946 runs perfectly fine on Linu-...oh, you're talking about the other one.

 

Ubuntu and its derivatives have become incredibly user friendly. For word processing and web browsing, it's totally adequate now.

 

 

That's what i said LR will not help you if you have problems with Open source drivers. 

Yeah the other il2 🙂 

They have become friendlier but it's still needs some time. But its getting there.

 


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20 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

But that's the problem, it's not a developers decision ... it's a market decision (per data 80% on Windows) and we programmers follow the metrics of higher revenue.  It's NOT about "me" as a developer, it's about growth and shorter delivery cycles.  I'm not against open or closed systems, they both have their benefits and pitfalls ... my preference isn't relevant ... and that's the problem I see with XP very slow development.  

I've had this same debate before with XP10 early days ... and yet nothing has changed and their is still the problem of slow development and unresponsive to end user desires.

Just like MSFS SDK isn't about what I want (nobody wants WASM or DX11), it's about what MS/Asobo want and where they feel the market share for increased sales "might" be.

Cheers, Rob.

Your SDK will not contain what every individual user wants , imagine 1 billion want some thing else in the SDK. I feel  as a developer you should understand that. 

You are the only one talking about this shorter development cycle as if LR don't understand , they have their own work cut out  .  Yeah some things are not done or not being that is a big put off.   They are seeing more revenue in the mobile app and in all fairness they have a right to earn. 

 


Zulfiqar  Location : VABB - Boombay - India

Powered By : X-plane  / il2 / DCS

Taking Flight where no one does

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

That's what i said LR will not help you if you have problems with Open source drivers. 

Sidney Just (Laminar) has been a major contributor to VKMA

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/VulkanMemoryAllocator

So that's just not true.

And, btw windows [7] has already been dumped.

 

Edited by mSparks

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Sidney Just (Laminar) has been a major contributor to VKMA

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/VulkanMemoryAllocator

So that's just not true.

And, btw windows [7] has already been dumped.

 

It was confirmed by Jennifer when i had submitted a bug long back  saying  they don't support the open source drivers 🙂.  It was Opengl back then not vulkan , probably only a few months ago

Maybe they changed that now

What about this windows 7 ? i don't use it 

Edited by HumptyDumpty

Zulfiqar  Location : VABB - Boombay - India

Powered By : X-plane  / il2 / DCS

Taking Flight where no one does

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28 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

What a great day this'll be. I'mma pop open a bottle of sparkling wine and get terribly drunk.

That's a terrible thing to say. Luckily most of the XPlane community are happy that the product is developed for multiple platforms so as many people as possible can enjoy it.

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