Cape Canaveral, a sea of Autogen

[wthomas33065 994]

I totally love this sim, but it's obvious that Asobo has counted on Photogrammetry to "fill in the gaps".  While the handcrafted POI's are skillfully drawn, this sim has much less of them than previous generations, relying almost completely on Photogrammetry to provide most of the detail.

Case in Point.  Cape Canaveral, (Cape Kennedy) has always had hand crafted versions of the VAB and launch towers since the earliest days of flight sim.  It was there the first time MSFS included Florida.  The satellite imagery of the area is of course spot on, but VAB is now nothing more than a big block building and the launch pads, smaller generic towers.

MSFS is a great big open canvas for freeware and payware developers to paint on.  Now if we can just get some people to upload to the library.  I remember back in the day when if it wasn't in the Avsim library, it wasn't worth having....(grin)

[RobdeVries 28]

Huh...https://www.msfsaddons.org/freeware/nasa-kennedy-space-center

[wthomas33065 994]

30 minutes ago, Holland_Holland said:

Huh...https://www.msfsaddons.org/freeware/nasa-kennedy-space-center

Problem solved

 

[pinepix62 63]

4 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

MSFS is a great big open canvas for freeware and payware developers to paint on

I have to smile. When FS2020 was first announced and they started sharing all the nice screenshots and videos it was said that this would mean the end of the road for 3rd party developers as the new sim would have it all.....

[kapitan 90]

Guys, write it in printed in capital letters.

AUTOGEN spoils the scenery more than it helps.

It gives an impression of "hey look at the buildings" cool effect if you DONT KNOW the city, if you are unfamiliar with it. It FOOLS you to think is more a less like it...

Then when you know a city well, autogen stands out as totally ruining the experience.

Better if left as tileproxy with just the maps

So MSFS2020 is wonderful for unpopulated areas (where buildings/houses are not an issue), or until millions of users apply each a different building/landmark of their fancy town, someone compiles them in one file and we can download and have a city WITHOUT AUTOGEN with building placed by hand each single one of them. Until then....

we will see many many threads like this one, people suddenly discovering its not a good feeling at all 

Edited September 12, 2020 by kapitan

[wthomas33065 994]

1 hour ago, kapitan said:

 

AUTOGEN spoils the scenery more than it helps.

Better if left as tileproxy with just the maps

 

I don't agree.  Autogen in FSX and FS9 was awful.  It was just a random mix of building and trees that made no sense.  At least in 2020 the autogen "fits".  Autogen in MSFS 2020 does a pretty spectacular job.

If they had "dropped" photogrammetry all together, gone with hand crafted cities, and then let autogen fill out the suburbs, I would have been ecstatic.  But you wouldn't have 400+ detailed areas like you have now.

But let's remember, unlike previous versions, this is a work in progress.  MS controls the scenery files, so unlike previous versions the scenery can improve as time goes on.

I think this is a great first effort and it will only get better.

Edited September 12, 2020 by wthomas33065

[kapitan 90]

when you fly in a place you know well, i dont mean handcrafted cities, choose any other, you see the Bing maps do its job, but autogen puts fake buildings and specially fake houses, with no garden and pool, filling that block with concrete, making the place fake. Where is my house? You can spot your block deducing by avenues and road reference, but your whole block is just a complete fake set of 3d

Better than fsx p3d i agree, better than xplane? no. The one thing MSFS has nice is the Bing maps that are close to satellite pictures.

[wthomas33065 994]

46 minutes ago, kapitan said:

Where is my house? You can spot your block deducing by avenues and road reference, but your whole block is just a complete fake set of 3d

That is a complete unrealistic expectation of autogen and even so, it does an admirable job.  My brother lives in Walla Walla.  No Photogrammetric areas for miles and I could easily pick out his house.  Yes, it won't give you the exact shape of the house, and it won't include a pool, but it puts a house where a house is for the most part.  For the suburbs and rural areas, I think it does very good.  

Not ONCE in xplane or FSX or earlier could I actually pick out my house.  If I had a satellite mesh, sure, but not a 3d Building.  If I turn off photogrammetry on my area, my townhouse building becomes just another long building ,but it is the right size.  So from altitude, the building/road mix looks proper.  

Where it fails is in urban areas.  The skyscrapers have no character and each skyline of a city is unique.  We always know of a building or two.  So when we see generic autogen for an entire city, that's when we get pulled out.  It's even worse when autogen substitutes a radio tower, or worse a National Monument for a very narrow skyscraper.

London and Washington DC scenery packs look epic.  Especially now that Orbx has patched the London Landmark packages to use the existing MS POI's (Tower Bridge, The spire, etc...) instead of their inferior versions.  But the shape of London is there.  

Considering it's $60.00 price tag, it is a crowning achievement, that will only get better.  And like most all previous versions MS has opened up the program for improvement so that talented members of the community can contribute.  I already have now a very nice Cape Canaveral, and a great Devils Tower.  I expect lots more to come out as the product develops and improves.

 

[conundrum 49]

The autogen isn’t perfect, but it still looks much better/more plausible than XP11, especially the placement. Xp11 can use orthos, but it still suffers from “autogen/if you know the area” even worse than m$fs.

Except the airports. Many consist of buildings of the right size and placement, except they look like houses, rather than hangars.

Others have parked cars in the right places, but they’ve forgotten to include any buildings. Not just the smaller airports, either.
 

If msfs needs to copy anything, it’s the Airport Gateway model.

[cobalt 798]

10 hours ago, kapitan said:

Guys, write it in printed in capital letters.

AUTOGEN spoils the scenery more than it helps.

It gives an impression of "hey look at the buildings" cool effect if you DONT KNOW the city, if you are unfamiliar with it. It FOOLS you to think is more a less like it...

Then when you know a city well, autogen stands out as totally ruining the experience.

Better if left as tileproxy with just the maps

So MSFS2020 is wonderful for unpopulated areas (where buildings/houses are not an issue), or until millions of users apply each a different building/landmark of their fancy town, someone compiles them in one file and we can download and have a city WITHOUT AUTOGEN with building placed by hand each single one of them. Until then....

we will see many many threads like this one, people suddenly discovering its not a good feeling at all 

I strongly disagree. I live in a small city that in FSX (augmented by Ultimate Terrain and GEX) was represented as a bunch of buildings in the right geographical area but was unrecognizable -- the buildings and streets were just generic, unrelated to the actual city. In MSFS it is totally different -- flying over the city is amazingly real, both in appearance and placement. My house is located on a street just one block long -- so obscure it is unknown even to most folks in the city! -- yet it is THERE, with my house and neighbors' houses in the right places and sizes. These houses are, of course, computer-drawn and differ in detail from the real ones, but that they are there at all is incredible!

In my opinion the above post is a perfect example of  trashing something that is very, very good and a great leap forward, just because it falls short of perfection.