Interim patch available

[qqwertz 793]

Just a bit of feedback: 

- the plane heat switch still seems only to work in the VC, not on the 2D panel.

- I got the ADF radio to receive in the VC (with Morse sound). However, when I opened the 2D radio panel, everything turned silent right away.

Peter

[dragonflightdesign 98]

😄😛 Just sometimes...

[qqwertz 793]

Sometimes might be right 🙂

I am doing another flight right now. It appears that the NDB needles in the VC do not work properly. They may almost always point in the forward direction, even when one passes the beacon. In the 2D panel, the needle of radio 2 works fine, but radio 1 switched off again when I opened the window.

[gaab 111]

On 12/27/2020 at 11:12 AM, dragonflightdesign said:

Hi Gérard

Pushing the starter with mags and fuel on for me just cranks the engine. No start, so yes, I do need an exact setup to find out why the engines start for you. Save a scenario and post it?

-Dai

Here the detailed procedure (already working in previous version and reported by mail)

To start engines from the VC (NO 2D panel used nor opened)

The obvious :
- set up fuel selectors
- set battery switch
- set mixture lever at about 50%
- starter

the non obvious
- do not activate the starter booster

 goto the FE motor panel and
- quickly and continuously move (I would even say agitate) the VC throttle lever around 50% during the time the starter is active.
- this will give a chance to actually start the engine (I have 90% success...)

Remarks :
    - the VC mixture lever is not synchronised with the Throttle Mixture lever position
    - moving the TQ mixture lever modifies the A:GENERAL ENG MIXTURE LEVER POSITION:n but not the VC mixture lever position (on FE motor panel)
    - of course moving the vc Mixture lever modifies the A:GENERAL ENG MIXTURE LEVER POSITION:n value.

- loking at the variable ENG GENERAL STARTER:n , you will see that the starter is reactived every 5 seconds AND the mixture reset to zero each time (which must be the cause of the start fail)

Hope it helps.

Gérard
 

   

Edited December 28, 2020 by gaab

[gaab 111]

The 4 "doors" existing on the B314.

The access to the engine...

There is also the mooring access, visible with "Parking Brake".

A very beautiful FlyBoat 🙂

For the time being you will need the "doorcontrol.zip" gauge available here in the library.(2004 gauge, but works fine even in P3DV5..) to be able to open them.

Gérard

Edited December 28, 2020 by gaab

[qqwertz 793]

54 minutes ago, gaab said:

- this will give a chance to actually start the engine (I have 90% success...)

I find it critical to reduce the rpm before starting and engine (four switches on the left-hand side of the engineer's panel). If I forget to do that, my success rate is close to 0 🙂

Also, the engineer needs to operate the hand pumps.

Just an addition to my report on the radios: I couldn't switch the sound off anymore even when the radios were switched off, and even when the main radio power (on the back wall) was off.

Peter

[gaab 111]

3 hours ago, qqwertzde said:

I find it critical to reduce the rpm before starting and engine (four switches on the left-hand side of the engineer's panel). If I forget to do that, my success rate is close to 0 🙂

Also, the engineer needs to operate the hand pumps.

Peter

The start procedure I described is for VC ONLY, which was so far considered as impossible...

Of course, when the VC start up procedure will be fixed, I expect to need the starter booster, the primer and the handpump 😉

and the cowflaps... but not the low engine RPM !

[dragonflightdesign 98]

21 hours ago, gaab said:

Here the detailed procedure (already working in previous version and reported by mail)

(...)

 goto the FE motor panel and
- quickly and continuously move (I would even say agitate) the VC throttle lever around 50% during the time the starter is active.

(...)

I'm going to count this as not a bug for three reasons:

1. Main reason which we can do nothing about. The sim expects to see a Holley or Stromberg type carburettor. It has no idea what a Chandler-Groves carburettor is and the Clipper will react incorrectly if you input an action that corresponds to Holley or Stromberg (such as pumping the throttle on partially opened mixture levers).

2. The FOM says 'do not touch the throttles during startup after cracking them open'

3. The FOM says 'set the mixture levers to full and then leave them alone until cruise'.

Edited December 29, 2020 by dragonflightdesign

[dragonflightdesign 98]

20 hours ago, qqwertzde said:

I find it critical to reduce the rpm before starting and engine (four switches on the left-hand side of the engineer's panel). If I forget to do that, my success rate is close to 0 🙂

Also, the engineer needs to operate the hand pumps.

Just an addition to my report on the radios: I couldn't switch the sound off anymore even when the radios were switched off, and even when the main radio power (on the back wall) was off.

Peter

I don't need to touch the RPM switches for startup. Are you in 2D or VC?

Radios: I'm getting really hacked off with the way the ident sound is behaving. It looks like a defect in the sim as no-one can tell me if KEY_ADF(x)_IDENT_OFF actually works. I thought that currently it was permanently off, but as someone else also said, leave it long enough and it will start up again even if the radio is off.

RDF needles working here. I thought that was in the patch but...

What doesn't work (as I've just discovered) is the RDF 2 offset control.

Also: I don't quite follow when you said that Radio 1 switches off when 'you open the window'?

[dragonflightdesign 98]

Doors:

- Default keypress is shift + e which should open ALL doors (and obviously doesn't). There is a further error here which isn't obvious: the wing doors should open inwards and not down. It's a bug in the model which cannot now be fixed.

- Default shift + e + 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 ignores the 'e' and treats the command as shift + 1 etc. This is a panel switch command. There appears to be no way of changing the default door selection to select exactly which door should open. If this needs a change to the model code to enable the doors to operate separately without using a third-party tool, then again, for internal reasons that cannot happen.

What am I missing?

Edited December 29, 2020 by dragonflightdesign

[qqwertz 793]

33 minutes ago, dragonflightdesign said:

I don't need to touch the RPM switches for startup. Are you in 2D or VC?

Also: I don't quite follow when you said that Radio 1 switches off when 'you open the window'?

Hello Dai,

I start the engines in the VC, but with the help of the 2D FE pump panel. That panel also has the rpm switches on it. The procedure is

- VC Captain: Battery on, Magnetos on

- 2D FE: throttles cracked, mixture to full, cowl flaps open, RPM low. Then prime engine 1, start pumping

- VC Captain: push booster button and engine 1 starter button. Repeat for the other engines.

As for the radio that switches off:

- I first only work in the VC. I switch on master electricity for radios on the back side of the VC, then I switch on radio 1 and 2 and dial a frequency. If a beacon is in range, the needles of both radios turn accordingly and I can hear Morse code.

- I then normally fly a little. If I then open the 2D radio panel, the needle of radio 1 will turn to a horizontal position and ceases to show the direction towards the beacon, both on the 2D panel and in the VC. I am not touching any switches, I only open the 2D panel.

Best,

Peter

 

[gaab 111]

1 hour ago, dragonflightdesign said:

I'm going to count this as not a bug for three reasons:

1. Main reason which we can do nothing about. The sim expects to see a Holley or Stromberg type carburettor. It has no idea what a Chandler-Groves carburettor is and the Clipper will react incorrectly if you input an action that corresponds to Holley or Stromberg (such as pumping the throttle on partially opened mixture levers).

2. The FOM says 'do not touch the throttles during startup after cracking them open'

3. The FOM says 'set the mixture levers to full and then leave them alone until cruise'.

Are you joking : of course this is complety out of the way it should work.

The main objective of this was to understand (and help to understand) why this does not work in VC mode.
You got the answer : for a reason you will have to determine, the Starter Booster (L:EngineStartBoosterButton, bool)  stops completly the starting sequence.

Investigating further, I found that Primer and HandPump had no impact (always in VC mode), which is also a BUG.

And at last, I was able to find in the overcrouded event log (dsd_p3d_event_logger_x64, that shows between 600 and 1150 events every second) that every 5 seconds the starter is re-activated and mixture set to zero).
That's way I try the TRICK I described. We are not at the step to follow the FOM.

And yes, not been able to follow the FOM from the VC is a BUG.

 

[dragonflightdesign 98]

9 minutes ago, gaab said:

not been able to follow the FOM from the VC is a BUG.

(...)

every 5 seconds the starter is re-activated and mixture set to zero).

I do not disagree with this - the VC should work as per the FOM, like the 2D does. When I said I was 'not going to count this as a bug' I was specifically refering to you setting the mixture levers to one-half and pumping the throttles. That is why I specifically quoted your pumping action and nothing else from the post.

Regretably, re-activating the starter every 5-6 seconds is the only way to keep the engine cranking when starting in 2D mode.

Edited December 29, 2020 by dragonflightdesign

[gaab 111]

36 minutes ago, dragonflightdesign said:

I do not disagree with this - the VC should work as per the FOM, like the 2D does.

Regretably, re-activating the starter every 5-6 seconds is the only way to keep the engine cranking when starting in 2D mode.

And I am in agreement with you - but there is no chance the get the engine started with a Mixture reset to zero.

We are speaking of the VC behavior part - I am perfectly able to start the 2D way, but not interested.

PS : Concerning the door issue, you can just take a look on the doorcontrol gauge. You will see that opening door 2 to 4 need a sequence of 

(>K:TOGGLE_AIRCRAFT_EXIT) (>K:SELECT_2) or 3 or 4. (other events needs also this K:SELECT_n).

The event flooding breaks this sequence and then only the door 1 (default EXIT) will open and close. But you know much better that I these topics and I wonder what you are trying to do with me...

My objective was to give INPUT - I am a professional IT project manager and Quality Assurance was my speciallity. So I know that feedback is valuable and fixing issue may be very time consuming.

Gérard

EDIT :

Quote

Exemple from the Prepar3D Learning Center
Software Development Kit (SDK)
References / Variables / Event IDs

ENGINE     Sets engines for 1,2,3,4 selection (to be followed by SELECT_n)
COM_RADIO     Follow by KEY_SELECT_2 for COM 2.
VOR_OBS     Sequentially selects the VOR OBS for use with +/-. Follow by KEY_SELECT_2 for VOR 2.
NAV_RADIO     Sequentially selects the NAV tuner digits for use with +/-. Follow by KEY_SELECT_2 for NAV 2.
TOGGLE_AIRCRAFT_EXIT     Toggles primary door open/close. Follow by KEY_SELECT_2, etc for subsequent doors.

SELECT_1     Sets "selected" index (for other events) to 1
SELECT_2     Sets "selected" index (for other events) to 2
SELECT_3     Sets "selected" index (for other events) to 3
SELECT_4     Sets "selected" index (for other events) to 4

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by gaab
Added information extracted from the Learning Center

[gaab 111]

2 hours ago, dragonflightdesign said:

Radios: I'm getting really hacked off with the way the ident sound is behaving. It looks like a defect in the sim as no-one can tell me if KEY_ADF(x)_IDENT_OFF actually works. I thought that currently it was permanently off, but as someone else also said, leave it long enough and it will start up again even if the radio is off.

Prepar3D Learning Center

KEY_RADIO_ADF_IDENT_DISABLE       Turns ADF 1 ID off
KEY_RADIO_ADF2_IDENT_DISABLE       Turns ADF 2 ID off

I always go to the "Bible"