MAJESTIC SOFTWARE - DASH 8 Q400

[rmeier 473]

41 minutes ago, Seagreen said:

Thanks to one and all for your really interesting input. I may have mislead at the start as although it took me ages, I  can now fly it fine using vnav etc. and I can land it manually albeit by the seat of my pants, usually with the stall warning blaring away. It was trying to configure it to land an Ils approach on auto pilot, at least down to 100 ft, and it doesnt seem to grab the GS that well and I know it is not their magnificant coding to blame. MLW is not the issue. I am now looking, as someone suggested, at my speed bugs.

It really is something else, stunning.

The Q400 hand flies very well...in my personal opinion, you're not helping yourself using autopilot to 100 feet above. Disconnect your A/P about 1000 to 500 above the threshold and fly the plane. It's not a "heavy".

My technique is flaps 5 between 180-190 knots until cleared for final by ATC.

Here's a decent video on landing approach to Thunder Bay. Watch the speeds as he's making final/flap settings (after setting the speed bugs).

The video link:

You don't need the additional software for approach speeds: here's a link to the speed card provided by Majestic (mine is laminated with the two face sheets out in a single card):

http://majesticsoftware.com/mjc8q400/docs/SpeedCard_metric.pdf

Yes, you always need to be on your game with this aircraft...it's part of the fun of flying the Q400! It's also rewarding when you get it right. Consistent landing below 40 fpm.

As I mentioned in the previous post...practice with flap 15 landings...it'll be much easier to learn.

Rob

[Seagreen 5]

Thank you, never occurred to disconnect the autopilot that early and as I said I can land it manually but would probably be lynched by the passengers most times so I will take your advice on board.

[Seagreen 5]

Great video. I was trying to have the autopilot take it down to just above the runway so that is a "no no". I was also killing the engines as I was almost on the runway and you must keep the power up. Practice makes perfect as long as you are not practising mistakes.

[micstatic 4,319]

It's safe to say I had to spend way more time learning this airplane than some of the others in my virtual hangar.  

Edited May 10, 2021 by micstatic

[HamSammich 17]

Try this:

No AP, flight director only. Get on a 30-45 degree intercept heading to the IF on the localizer. Be in Blue needles mode. Have the proper approach course set and be at platform altitude, flaps 5 and about 160-175kts. Have your speeds set.

Intercept localizer. Watch GS and, at 1 dot deflection, push the reduced noise prop button, and advance prop levers to full. The RPM will stay at 850. Bring torque to about 11-15 percent, depending on weight. Hold altitude and allow the plane to slow. As you intercept the GS, lower the gear, put in flaps 15, follow the FD and retrim so you are nearly hands-off. Adjust power til you’re at VRef+5. Again, trim til you can do this hands-off.

NOW, hit Pause. That’s right, hit it. And look. Just look at your instruments. Check your rate of descent—it should be approx 700 rpm. See how much power and, most importantly, see what your attitude is. If you’ve settled into the correct speed, or on the glideslope and doing all the right things, you should be anywhere from nose level to a degree or so nose up. If you’re significantly nose down but on the GS, look at your speed, betcha you’re too fast. If you’re significantly nose down, betcha you’re slow.

The idea here is to get to know your airplane.

If you dial in the correct power, pitch, trim and configuration, watch my lips now—THAT IS YOUR AUTOPILOT!!!

I spent the weekend riding along with a friend doing practice IFR in a Mooney. He’s had the plane for years. Knows every angle. Every single approach he set EXACTLY the same power, followed EXACTLY the same steps. The only adjustments were for wind.

and, guess what? He flew them all with his fingertips, raw data, no FD. No oscillation, no big corrections. No sweat. Try doing a few dozen approaches, by hand, in the Q400. I guarantee you will be better all around, even on AP. And you’ll have fun amazing your friends.

trust me, if any of this were really hard, there’d be burning planes at the end of every runway, all day, every day.

Edited May 10, 2021 by HamSammich

[rmeier 473]

HamSammich has given some great tips in his last post.

Are you perhaps over-thinking this?

Just remember, in real life, it's typically low time pilots that make hundreds of these flights everyday in the Q400.

Fly the plane...it's not meant to be a highly automated heavy...and it won't fly like one.

You need to know your landing weight, the wind, and the speed references for your configuration. Setting the speed bugs helps your eye to focus on your approach.

Watch the video (link in previous post) closely...although he is a little quick (in my opinion) on his final, watch again his actual speed when he flares (and you shouldn't be making an aggressive flare!)...and like the video shows, don't let off on the throttle until the wheels are planted on the runway. IRL, the Q400 has amazing prop braking capability.

You need to manage the throttles the whole way in...keep the aircraft just above your landing speed (while on the G/S) for the last 200-300 feet (after setting your flaps). You'll know it's "right" by the watching the pitch. If you're fighting pitch to land (maintain G/S), your configuration is not right (or at the very least, you haven't adjusted your elevator trim to not fight the yoke).

The majority of my landings are at flaps 15...off the top of my head, I can only think of 3 runways where I'll actually use full flaps: EGLC (Flybe), CYTZ (Air Canada and Porter) and CYCG (Air Canada...in real life, ACA only fly the Dash-8 300 into that airport, but, with RNAV approach through the mountains and final visual to RWY 33, it's the most challenging landing).

If it feels like you're flying by the seat of your pants...you are! Go around, figure out why it wasn't "right" and do it again.

Once you find your landing technique, you'll thoroughly enjoy this aircraft! Short haul has lots of take-offs/landings. Have fun!

[HamSammich 17]

….continued. Oh, and, as you’ve discovered, Seagreen, hold power until wheels down. In fact, a very brief and small blip of power at ten feet will help tease it on. Your flare, if you’re on speed, should only be a degree or two.

[HamSammich 17]

RMeir. Agree totally. Was just spelling out each step for clarity. For me, I even know just about where everything should be by feel and muscle memory. IMO, it’s actually a honey of a plane. Wish I could climb into a Level-D and check out the RW feel. Spent a few hours in a G650 sim last week and had a ton of fun shooting approaches. The scenery, not so much.

Edited May 10, 2021 by HamSammich

[Seagreen 5]

Great input, cheers everyone. Will absorb the advice.

Rmeier, I remember a RW pilot, of which you may be one, talking about they have a saying, when all else fails "Fly the plane". (your advice) It may mean different things to different people but it seemed to be their mantra.

 

[HamSammich 17]

Yup. Fly the plane first. And unless it’s an X15 at altitude, all planes (yes, with quirks; yes, within reason) fly the same. Which means maintain alpha within limits and they will fly. Keep them wings level and the ball centered, and they will fly straight. Use primary controls to change this. Use secondary controls to make life easier, more convenient, keep within runway constraints, etc. And that’s it. All else is nuance.

[rmeier 473]

4 hours ago, Seagreen said:

Great input, cheers everyone. Will absorb the advice.

Rmeier, I remember a RW pilot, of which you may be one, talking about they have a saying, when all else fails "Fly the plane". (your advice) It may mean different things to different people but it seemed to be their mantra.

 

Not a real world pilot...just a computer pilot for the last 35 years!

I've always been an aviation Geek (growing up under the flight path of one of CYVR's runways)...whether flying (for business and/or pleasure), hanging out at the end of a runway somewhere plane-spotting, reading as much as I could/can (ever remember the old AirDisaster.com website?). Yeah, I've even bought numerous flight DVD's (probably got hooked on that Level-D 767 FS2004 box set with the London to Miami DVD!) to learn as much as possible about real world ops.

My best friend's Dad when I was growing up was a Captain for CP Air (B727). His hobby was building/flying model planes...he taught me a lot about the physics of flight at a very young age.

My real passion is sailing (weather, water, peace and quiet) including a 3,000 nm offshore "blue-water" sail in a 42' Sloop. The analogy I use between powerboating (AKA stink-potting) and sailing: one (form of this transport) is about the destination...the other is about the trip. Take care of the boat, she'll take care of you.

Applying this analogy to flightsimming: Are you interested in flying for the destination or interested in flying for the trip? If it is the latter, what is your plane telling you (feedback) between your trip from A to B? To me, this is "Fly the Plane". How would the plane respond without autopilot and what inputs are required to ease physical flying in the absence of an autopilot (similar to what HamSammich stated above)?  I suspect there are some flightsimmers that just want to do the autopilot/autoland long haul from A to B (and appear to miss the nuances of the trip...and learn how the aircraft responds). There are aircraft available that do exactly that. To each, his or her own.

For me, the Manfred Jahn freeware C-47 is the best "stick and rudder" trainer available...low and slow (but heavier than a GA)...practice trimming the rudder and elevator for level flight on a VOR to VOR path. Do not use the autopilot/GPS features of the C-47 aircraft. Tune the radios old school, dead reckoning until you pick up the next radio signal...Fly the Plane. When you master the C-47, apply those learnings to the Q400.

With the introduction of real world weather and terrain induced wind effects to flightsimming, landing the Majestic Q400 is, what I assume to be, very much a "stick and rudder" exercise. Forget automation. That, to me, is part of what makes the Q400 such a pleasure to fly. Keeping the "old school" flight tables adds to that immersion. The upside to the Q400 vs the C-47...the added benefits of SID/STAR procedures and faster speed, requiring you to stay ahead of the plane. But it's still a prop...with asymmetrical thrust properties if not managed accordingly.

In my opinion...the Majestic Q400 aircraft is, by far, the best value available for a third party add-on. With all the aircraft in my hangar, it is one of three that I always come back to for the simple joy of flightsimming.

Good luck with mastering the Majestic Q400...it won't take long...learn the correct techniques...you'll learn to really enjoy it (and not feel like seat of the pants flying)!

Rob

[ber17118 1]

Im no real pilot, just a nerd on the computer. What DCS has told me (when the first carrier capable planes came out), I learned that apparently I was flying airplanes the wrong way. I controlled the glidepath with the stick and used the throttle to keep it on approach speed. This made, for me at least, landing the Dash8 challenging. Try this, control your descend not with teh stick, but with the throttle. if you descend too fast, add power, if you're too high, reduce throttle. then its super easy.