'Ladies and gentlemen, We have landed at the wrong airport!'

[LAdamson 240]

>I subscribe to the theory that if were going to mess up>without gadgets then you will still mess up with them. Nope....The younger generation who are experts at button pushing such as text messages, will not only know how to push buttons quickly & efficiently, but will be multi-tasking while keeping watch for un-known traffic/terrain problems at the same time on the GPS big screeen.To them, the process will be nearly automatic; unlike teaching the old ones, new tricks.

[KevinAu 441]

>>I subscribe to the theory that if were going to mess up>>without gadgets then you will still mess up with them. >>Nope....>>The younger generation who are experts at button pushing such>as text messages, will not only know how to push buttons>quickly & efficiently, but will be multi-tasking while keeping>watch for un-known traffic/terrain problems at the same time>on the GPS big screeen.>>To them, the process will be nearly automatic; unlike teaching>the old ones, new tricks.>>Nope....I and my buddies belong to this "younger generation" and I assure you, we mess up just the same. One of the first things one of my best friends did was get a GPS after getting his private ticket. One of the first things he did was go direct to wherever he was going and clip the San Diego B airspace without talking to anybody. Fortunately, they were feeling nice and let him off with only a verbal over the phone.No amount of gadgetry will prevent poor airmanship. Neither should a lack of gadgetry excuse poor airmanship.

[Geofa 108]

How about the amount of button pushing-needed at perhaps a crucial time in flight?Just last week-I flew a short flight as copilot with my partner from Canada (cygd) to Port Huron, Mi. The weather was forecast to be only marginal vfr-however when about 5 miles from phn it went to pretty severe ifr-ceilings 100 ft. above minimums with moderate snow, 1 mile vis, and we were picking up ice. What was supposed to be a visual approach turned into a full ils-with monitoring needed on the icing (cycling of boots etc) in addition to the challenge of flying a low approach in these conditions. We put the ils freq. in, identified, and tuned the course on the hsi-3 steps. As copilot-I also programed the gps. Push "appr", enter airport, scroll to the ils appr.,push enter for the message "ils approaches for monitoring only", push to confirm,scroll to vectors, push enter,push the button to select-then get the message button to set the altimeter setting-push enter-go to the altimeter page and set the altimeter-push a few more buttons-then go back to "appr" -push activate approach-a few more pushes-now a nice display on the gps.A lot of steps-by the time I was done we were already turning base for the approach,along with a quite few descents.I found myself thinking that if I was flying single pilot on this flight I would have used the ils only-much simpler to set up, and less distracting,and very reliable in a very difficult situation. Use the gps just to see situational awareness. Of course, since I as copilot programed the gps-it was nice as a backup-but just getting the $#$#^& thing programmed could certainly have caused distractions at a crucial/critical time of flight in a lot of ways imho. As Peter stated, it is the distractions that get you.We did break out right over the runway with 1 mile vis and 100ft. above minimums in fairly heavy snow. The ils did the trick nicely.I have talked to my friend who seems to let his ifr flying get away after only 4 or so button presses of the gps-why not in low, busy conditions(for an approach especially) just use the steam gauges,reduce button presses, and enjoy the moving map for situational awareness? He agrees. Unfortunately, I think the button pressing and the features start to become compelling and few can resist....Again, it will be interesting to see what the statistics say after these technologies have been around a while.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[LAdamson 240]

> One of the first things>one of my best friends did was get a GPS after getting his>private ticket. One of the first things he did was go direct>to wherever he was going and clip the San Diego B airspace>without talking to anybody. Fortunately, they were feeling>nice and let him off with only a verbal over the phone.>Just a suggestion; but perhaps the friend needs a color moving map GPS, such as mine (Garmin 296), where the Class B boundaries stand out like a sore thumb with bright blue colors; and you have a flashing alarm as well as an audio alarm when approaching the airspace.In order to miss these warnings, you'd have to forget you were carrying the GPS altogether, or a sudden case of blindness & deafness. :D L.Adamson

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

>Sorry to report I saw the incident happen and also heard it on the radio. The A320 crew elected to go around after losing the ILS signals and asked for circuit details. From a viewing position west of Eglinton I saw the A320 turned downwind RH at EGQB(I believe the pilot said he thought he was to high to land but he looked perfect to me i.e. wrong airfield). The radio at EGAE got rather involved on the servicablity of the ILS and the controller annouced he was listening( on an Icom) to the ident though it could not be recognised. The Calibrater was holding at 15miles east and all the lights were on even the flashing lead in approach lights. The A320 turned tight base at Ballykelly and then disappeared from my view. The controller asked for a DME and pilot reported on the ground. He landed on 26 at EGQB stopping just short of the railway line that crosses the runway. Unfortunate error or lots of errors I am afraid.<>I was listening to ATC too:ATC: "confirm your DME"Eirjet: "we're on the ground"ATC: "you've landed at Ballykelly"Eirjet: "I know"

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

Just to add that Peter's quotes are from PPRuNE which has a disclaimer:"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions."It isn't fact yet, but it does seem to me to be the most likely and plausible scenario.http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219465

[mgh 89]

The aerodrome AIP (EGAE AD 2.20 - Local Traffic Regulations, Section 4 - Warnings) states:"Pilots are reminded of the close proximity of Ballykelly 5 nm to the east-north-east of this aerodrome. Ballykelly runway lighting may be observed from the final approach to Runway 26. Pilots of aircraft en-route and in the circuit should positively identify Londonderry/Eglington before committing the aircraft to landing."The charts show that the approach to Rwy 26 passes almost directly over Ballykelly - it's offset by less than 0.5 nm. As a result the aircraft would appear to ATC to have been on course to land at Londonderry so there was no need for ATC to take any action on that account.The pilot was solely responsible for the incident - he didn't positively identify Londonderry.

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr...y=gen-en-010406

[mgh 89]

It gets worse from the pilot's point of view, even if Ryanair thinks it's funny.The approach to Rwy 26 at Londonderry is over land until past Ballykelly. It is then over water - Lough Foyle. The approach lighting is over water too, and the end of the ruynway is only 150 m from the water's edge. You might think the pilots could tell the difference between land and water but obviously not.

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

mgh,I meant to post that at the top level, not as a rsponse to you.Anyway, I know it is human nature to shoot those down who occupy positions in life that we seek. I also know how easy it is to think that something is easy just because one has read the book or played the computer game. It is also easy to pull something apart that happened in mibutes over a period of days and say they should have thought of this and that. This wasn't a normal approach it was a high pressure, high workload situation and if mistakes happen, that will be the time.Even though this is a huge mistake and extremely embarrassing, this guy is/was a pilot for 30 years and is clearly no idiot who can't tell the difference between land and water - lol.

[mgh 89]

Some points.One, I don't seek to be an airline pilot.Two, I don't think flying is easy, even though I held a PPL.Three, people have to take responsibility for their mistakes, not just shrug them off on the basis that they happen.Four, the pilots were fortunate they runway was unobstructed and servicable. Their action could have led to loss of life. The fact that it didn't is no justification for excusing them. Finally, the pilots demonstrated very clearly by their actions that they couldn't "tell the difference between land and water" It was a VFR approach.

[Capt. Windh 3]

What did the co-pilot do? Concur?